Who or what is trans? Danish person tests legal vs societal acceptance

43 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

He is an artist of sorts.  He was demonstrating how the self ID laws in Denmark allow this.

 

He's in a couple of interviews saying he feels like a lesbian woman in a man's body and he's been married twice and has 6 kids.  Since he's not actually trying to look like a woman nor does he seem interested in hormone therapy or surgeries, I don't think he really desires to be a woman so for him it's probably more of a joke or a ploy for attention.

 

Here:  https://www.bt.dk/danmark/koensskiftet-mand-skabte-panik-i-svoemmehal  he says he felt very hurt being asked to use a handicap change room at the pools although during the TV interview, he seems ok using the men's.  Here's a bit more on his past:  https://www.bt.dk/nyheder/kunstneren-ibi-pippi-jeg-foeler-mig-som-en-lesbisk-kvinde-fanget-i-en-mands-krop

 

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20 hours ago, snowingagain said:

He is an artist of sorts.  He was demonstrating how the self ID laws in Denmark allow this.

In most countries you don¡t even need to bother with paperwork, self declaration is enough to make you female.

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15 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

In most countries you don¡t even need to bother with paperwork, self declaration is enough to make you female.

 

On TT, too :lol:

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33 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

In most countries you don¡t even need to bother with paperwork, self declaration is enough to make you female.

 

As far as I know, most countries used to require sex change surgery in order to change the gender marker but then some people complained that it wasn't fair and you should be able to self declare.  I don't know how many countries are going along with that now.

 

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Many countries do not insist on surgery, or hormones, but still require people to apply to change sex, and show that they have gender dysphoria and have lived as the opposite sex for a couple of years.  This is different from self ID.

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4 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Many countries do not insist on surgery, or hormones, but still require people to apply to change sex, and show that they have gender dysphoria and have lived as the opposite sex for a couple of years.  This is different from self ID.

 

It is possible that even Denmark is not allowing people to self ID.  This guy could have gotten a therapist to approve him and he could well have seen the therapist in a dress and make up every time.  He does say he dresses female sometimes.  There would be no way for the therapist to know if he's living as or just doing it occasionally.

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25 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

It is possible that even Denmark is not allowing people to self ID.  This guy could have gotten a therapist to approve him and he could well have seen the therapist in a dress and make up every time.  He does say he dresses female sometimes.  There would be no way for the therapist to know if he's living as or just doing it occasionally.

 

Sure no way a psychologist could be sure.  But 2 years of appointments is something.  As opposed to just saying you are something.  There seems to me to be a huge variation in transgender people.  Men who suffer genuine gender dysphoria and suffer hugely, men who like having breasts and a penis, men who like wearing dresses.  Men who like having a penis and a neo vagina.  I find transmen much more straight forward and easy to understand, and who also seem to be similar to lesbians I know. Perhaps because they are women like me.  

 

All are welcome to come round for a cup of tea though.  

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3 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

I find transmen much more straight forward and easy to understand.  Perhaps because they are women like me.  

 

 

How are transmen = women??? :huh:

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18 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

How are transmen = women??? :huh:

 

Controversial I know, but born female xx etc.  With ovaries and such.  Transmen seem to be much more easier to understand.   They seem to be into women.  I will get loads of abuse for saying this, but I think most are really lovely masculine women, who are into loving women.  

 

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32 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Controversial I know, but born female xx etc.  With ovaries and such.  Transmen seem to be much more easier to understand.   They seem to be into women.  I will get loads of abuse for saying this, but I think most are really lovely masculine women, who are into loving women.  

 

So is it your opinion that XX persons are simply women and XY persons are simply men forever more?  You realize that some transmen are gay, right?  Have you told the transmen you know that you consider them to be women and if yes, how did they react to that?

 

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8 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

So is it your opinion that XX persons are simply women and XY persons are simply men forever more?  You realize that some transmen are gay, right?  Have you told the transmen you know that you consider them to be women and if yes, how did they react to that?

 

 

I have no problem sharing a changing room with a transman.  Which obviously makes me a bigot.

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Well I guess they label themselves. Going to a sauna on woman's day here and someone obviously male woud be weird.  But it is of course fine for me in the mixed sex sauna.  Why would they do that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

I have no problem sharing a changing room with a transman.  Which obviously makes me a bigot.

 

I don't know.  Do you have a problem sharing with transwomen?  Do you refer to transwomen as guys?  

 

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Oooh. Too many labels. Why do we have to label people?

 

It is getting more complicated.  My niece recently posted a short documentary she made with interviews with three young people who consider themselves non binary.  None of them are transitioning, they just want to make it clear that they don't identify as male or female, maybe neither or both or day to day and they prefer gender neutral pronouns.

 

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7 hours ago, LeonG said:

 

I don't know.  Do you have a problem sharing with transwomen? 

 

I would find it odd showering and undressing in front of someone who is male bodied.  But I do of course try to remember their new name.   Which I am not good at, so just avoid using any name.

 

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Do you refer to transwomen as guys?  

 

No.  Well I guess in some sense yes, as I tend rather sloppily to use the word "guys" to mean folks, and use it for both sexes.  

 

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It is getting more complicated.  My niece recently posted a short documentary she made with interviews with three young people who consider themselves non binary.  None of them are transitioning, they just want to make it clear that they don't identify as male or female, maybe neither or both or day to day and they prefer gender neutral pronouns.

 

I know a couple of NBs.  Thing about pronouns is, when you are directly dealing with someone, you use you, your, yours.  They are both female bodied and I have no problem undressing, showering, being naked in a sauna with them.  

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19 hours ago, snowingagain said:

 

Controversial I know, but born female xx etc.  With ovaries and such.  Transmen seem to be much more easier to understand.   They seem to be into women.  I will get loads of abuse for saying this, but I think most are really lovely masculine women, who are into loving women.  

 

*very deep sigh* *walks off, shaking head*

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8 hours ago, snowingagain said:

 

I would find it odd showering and undressing in front of someone who is male bodied.  But I do of course try to remember their new name.   Which I am not good at, so just avoid using any name.

 

Interesting.  Are you now talking about a transwoman in the sense of the Danish guy who doesn't even make an effort to look like a woman (btw, I don't consider him a transwoman) or do you also consider a transwoman male bodied even after hormones and surgery?  I've never seen a transwoman fully naked btw but one flashed me her boobs once and they did not look like man boobs to me.
 

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I fully support the rights of adults to transition sex and people to see themselves as they wish. However as long as society separates on sexual organs then there should be bathrooms for those with dangly bits, others for those with holes and others for those with something else (smooth like GI Joe/Buzz Lightyear). We can label these 9, 0, - 

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