Dating Scene of Germany: Emotionally Unavailable

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I can't imagine meeting someone in a bar in Singapore, and had my first date with my partner based on a photo on the Internet :)

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

I can't wrap my mind about meeting a partner with a photo on the internet.

 

I picked up Himself in a jazz bar in Singapore.

 

Call me old fashioned.

As far as I am aware the internet is here to stay and out of the top of my head I know of three long term couples in my not too large circle of acquaintances that have met on the internet.  It's not an either-or thing you can do both. I have never met anyone in a bar in my life, not even back when I was young and actually going to bars ;-)

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For an introverted person like me, Internet and bar is the same pair of shoes, it is about getting connected to a stranger. Never worked for me, and I think this is too much risk, so we have survival bias here.

 

Classic getting to know someone in places of shared interests is still the thing.

 

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Yeah, so I have been a happily divorced guy now for the past 20 years, one or two girlfriends in the immediate aftermath but that dried up and by now I havn´t been in any kind of relationship since 2005. You know any catholic priest wanting tips on celibacy, tell them to ask me. 

But of late things seem a tad empty so I decided to Tinderize my life a bit.

Well...

The few bites I actually get seem to dry up after a day or two. One started to dredge for my "feelings" and when I told her that I was not comfortable telling them to a person I have just met, she answered with "another man who cant talk about feelings" Some pings on tinder are monosyllabic and exhausting to talk to, some are gold diggers. One I actually met only to find out that I am too big for her taste. Another who I would like to meet is finding excuses not to.

So sod it, I don´t need a relationship, it´s a nice to have but that is all.

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17 hours ago, fraufruit said:

I picked up Himself in a jazz bar in Singapore.

'Oh, Mamie minded Mama, till one day in Singapore,
A sailorman from Turkestan came knockin' at the door...'
Walt Kelly, from his Pogo comic strip, sometime in the 50s


Uighur militants Committee for Eastern Turkistan

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On 7/2/2021, 10:08:25, yourkeau said:

 

I asked this question as I would like to know if you are familiar with German recruiting process. When you come to a job interview, you sell yourself to the prospective employer, you convince them that their expenses on your salary is worth the benefit you would bring to their company. What you don't do is to blame employers for rejections and convincing yourself that no one in Berlin actually has a job.

 

It is the same with dating. Ask yourself why would a Berlin lady like to be in a relationship with you? What benefit will it bring to her?

First of all, a woman is not recruiting a man!! That is not love. That is not relationship! Ok? Equality, right?

Secondly, going back to the simplest example: you are a single man, with a group of other single men attend a speed dating event. No woman joins at all. What exactly is your mistake and how exactly improving yourself can change this?! As I said, it is what it is. Less and less people are in a relationship as a result of this commonplace callousness and indifference.

18 hours ago, Marianne013 said:

If you are on a free dating app, you don't really mean it. Looking for the love of your life, but not willing to spend a few bucks on it ? Doesn't compute.

I spend around 600 euros on a many of them. Until I realized the scam. I also realized almost all those companies are owned by the match group company. I also realized that employees of the Match Group might also be members of this forum 😉 So I never argue over online dating apps. Who ever thinks they work, let him use his time and money.

18 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

 

He says he isn't "photogenic". No sense throwing good money after bad.

Beside that, any online dating app can also equip itself with an array of computer generated images just to look very big and fancy. No human can compete with those virtual 3d faces in attractiveness. People are falling in love with virtual characters!

18 hours ago, Marianne013 said:

LOL. A friend of mine isn't photogenic either. He had a hair cut, a fresh shirt and then had his picture taken by a professional. It's still clear he isn't Mr Universe, but it does make a difference. (And no, he didn't just recycle a "Bewerbungsphoto", because he's aware of the difference when it comes to looking for a job or a mate ;-).

Job yes. Online dating no. Oh, I promised myself not to argue with online-dating-faithfulls.

17 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

Yes, but why go to all that trouble? It's so much easier to blame the people who apparently aren't attracted to him.

 

With that kind of attitude, he's destined to be forever alone.

I see that again and again that someone is attracted to me. It is not that I am absolutely unattractive person. The problem is, there is no place for singles who are looking for a relationship to see each other except online dating which is full of fake photos. And because of those fake photos expectations are sky high for both men and women. My male friends also tell me all the girls around us look ugly! They say that is the reason they don't want to date anyone! No one wants to settle down. Men and women. Both genders are not attracted to the other. It is just that each gender behaves differently in this situation.

And then there comes the pandemy of callousness, indifference and emotionally unavailable people. Men who fell in love a hundred times and each time seeing that it was just a fake online dating bot to lure them into subscriptions or at best a gold digger to lure them into signing some papers in a third world country. So they decided to become indifference to women.

And women who offered their bodies to hundred men after falling in love with them just to see that their partner is indifference to love and just wanted a quick sex.

The city of zombie robots!

17 hours ago, fraufruit said:

I can't wrap my mind about meeting a partner with a photo on the internet.

 

I picked up Himself in a jazz bar in Singapore.

 

Call me old fashioned.

Good old days... Once someone offered in a church meeting if we share our phone numbers so we can be in contact with each other. Everyone felt this can be a good idea. Until one of the management shouted: Excuse me! GDPR! WE CAN'T DO THAT!

 

17 hours ago, anne k said:

Saying "If you behave in XYZ way you will look desperate and people don't like that" is not an attack on your personality; it's a tip about what behaviour to avoid. Behaviour is something we learn and can change. No-one is born knowing how to behave in every situation. It's mildly embarrassing asking for tips, but you've been brave enough to ask, so it would be a waste to ignore the tips you get.

 

Saying you should try therapy is also not an attack on your personality. Even if you think that therapy is only for people with serious mental health conditions (it is not), all human beings will have some sort of mental health issues at some point in their lives, and therapy for that is nothing to be ashamed of. Therapy is also a useful way of working through more minor issues that you have. I've found it very useful in the past and I'm sure others responding have, too - probably even some of those suggesting therapy.

I'm saying dating in Berlin according to statistics I provided is not working for more and more people. More and more people are living alone. Let's assume I'm the worst person in the universe (if that makes you feel good about yourself)! Now let's get back to the discussion about how this situation is happening for everyone in the city.

You can forever blame me. But read this article and see that it is not me:

Berlin, capital of loneliness

 

As for me, My best therapy: run away from Sodom! Live somewhere else before you get old.

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7 minutes ago, Pesar said:

The problem is, there is no place for singles who are looking for a relationship to see each other except online dating

 

Not true. Things are opening up now.

 

My stepson met his future wife at the Oktoberfest. I know other couples who met when together with hiking groups, etc. People meet at birthday parties and all sorts.

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Let me clear some things a bit to guide the conversation.

The topic is not that OP is being rejected.

Rather the topic of this post is that there is almost no way singles who look for a partner can actually find each other in Berlin and online-dating does not work for most people. If you go to any activity, there is no way to know who is single and which of those singles are looking for a relationship. Asking people left and right will label you as harasser or needy!

Online dating is out of subject

I can create a separate post about it. But I never want to argue with people over that. It is like arguing with fans of a smartphone company or a car company. Each company has its own loyal customers and they jump in the forum and start attacking the OP. It just doesn't work for me (And I believe it doesn't work for anyone).

Not everyone feel the problem equally

The problem is situation is bad for everyone and worse for some. One of those who have it worst, comes to a forum and complains about it. It is as if there is water shortages in a city. If your apartment is ground floor you won't feel it. Maybe a little less water pressure. But those who are living in higher stories will complain. If I was a 20 years old man from north europe and blond hairs and blue eyes and 2 and half meters tall and from a very wealthy family, they I wouldn't complain either. It's simple.

Exceptions always happen

And they haven't happened for me yet. One can win the lottery and become rich. Does that mean there is no economic problem in his country?

Short time relationships doesn't count

If your goal is just a six month fling, or a sex partner for weekends, then you can drop all your moral and physical standards and just settle down for anything. But that is not the topic here.

 

LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT: Dating is different than hookup

A lot of people who say "But I am dating in Berlin and I have no problem with that", don't realize that they actually are not dating. It is easy if your goal is just to have sex. You can easily put these three factors in a table and get laid almost every night:

  • Your age
  • Your attractiveness
  • Your money

Now here is a table of different scenarios of successful casual sex encounters that can happen (I am writing about this to ensure you that I know what it is and it is not dating and it is not what I am after and I advice you to not go after either):

  • A 20 years old man but not very attractive and not very rich sleeps with a woman 15 years older than him but attractive. Here age is exchanged with attractiveness.
  • A 40 years old man but very attractive and handsome sleeps with a woman 15 years younger than him but not attractive. Here again age is exchanged with attractiveness but in the opposite direction.
  • A 40 years old man and not attractive sleeps with a woman 15 years younger than him and very attractive. The man pays for the prostitution service after that! Here money is exchanged for age and attractiveness.
  • A 50 years old woman and not attractive sleeps with a man 15 years younger than her and very attractive. The woman pays for the callboy service after that! Here money is exchanged for age and attractiveness in the opposite direction!

I don't want to bring more examples. I despise it. I just want to say that all the above examples might claim that they are dating! The fact that they ARE dating means that they are not actually dating. Because if you are successfully dating, you must be in a relationship by now. Dating is not an activity for the rest of your life! You will settle down at some point. Many times I have talked with friends of mine who told me they easily can have ANY woman. And the point is any woman. A friend of mine who has a long experience with casual sex once gave me these two facts:

  1. Your personality, religion, mindset, goals, job, education, language, health, etc. does not matter. Just have sex!
  2. When you can't have sex with women younger, go for older. As old as you can finally get laid!!

Problem is, that is not my goal.

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1 hour ago, slammer said:

Yeah, so I have been a happily divorced guy now for the past 20 years, one or two girlfriends in the immediate aftermath but that dried up and by now I havn´t been in any kind of relationship since 2005. You know any catholic priest wanting tips on celibacy, tell them to ask me. 

But of late things seem a tad empty so I decided to Tinderize my life a bit.

Well...

The few bites I actually get seem to dry up after a day or two. One started to dredge for my "feelings" and when I told her that I was not comfortable telling them to a person I have just met, she answered with "another man who cant talk about feelings" Some pings on tinder are monosyllabic and exhausting to talk to, some are gold diggers. One I actually met only to find out that I am too big for her taste. Another who I would like to meet is finding excuses not to.

So sod it, I don´t need a relationship, it´s a nice to have but that is all.

In this city most men and women feel like you sir.

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Not only does it feel like most younger people around me are single (compared to 10 years ago, when it seemed that everyone my own age was also in a long-term relationship), it also seems like more people middle-aged and up (50+) are single, and have little intention to change it.  They've gone through marriages/relationships, raised or are raising kids, separated from their partners and are now so consumed with regaining some semblance of peace in their lives that a new relationship is the furthest thing from their minds.  So that's one section that might be single the rest of their lives.  And, I wonder, in another ten years, will the younger people also be middle-aged people who have never had a serious relationship?  I wonder about the rise of polyamory, open relationships and all these "arrangements" and "dating" that people in their 20s, 30s and 40s are doing, never learning how to be in long-term monogamous relationships with all their work and compromise.  If someone doesn't suit you, you're encouraged to find someone else, and the internet tells you that all you have to do is put your info in an app and go on enough dates and poof!  Eventually, after you sift through all the bullshit, you will finally find a partner that requires no work and no compromise who likes everything you like and shares all your same views and thinks and operates exactly like you do and you will live happily ever after in perfect, effortless harmony.  If you don't get what you want from one person, consider dating several people!  Find others who are also willing to share and be shared!  This is healthy!  Normal!  Modern!  Hip!  So no one is ever developing the skills of being in an adult, exclusively two-person relationship.  That is what I see around me, anyway.  And so I wonder if in 10-15 years it's just going to be a bunch of aging single people who are super sad because they spent so much time thinking they can have it all that they never tried to build something real, with one person, to get old with.  I dunno.  The trends I see in my circles are frankly worrying.

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1 hour ago, Pesar said:

If you go to any activity, there is no way to know who is single and which of those singles are looking for a relationship. Asking people left and right will label you as harasser or needy!

 

My take on that is that you get to know people for themselves, and as you become part of a group it becomes easier to know/find out who is who etc. This is a long-ish term strategy - but then finding a life partner is a big investment. Definitely you can't just come out and say - I am looking for a partner. That is creepy, you are right.

 

The group you join does need to have the right makeup - my two activities - one is mixed age but there are fewer than 40 people so although we have singles of both sexes, if that's what you are looking for, choice is obviously restricted.

The other activity is a large group, 150+, and although it is mostly older people, lots of married people, there are still enough for there to be various singles around of different ages. If I was looking specifically for a partner, I would maybe join two of those type of groups, to widen the options. Then I would need lots of free time, I suppose. It would be a gamble as to whether someone suitable is present in those groups. This is an activity I enjoy. That is important, because you are then spending time having fun regardless of the relationship outcome.

 

This is theoretical for me, but still meant sincerely. I agree people are increasingly dislocated, and that must be more so in a huge city. I hope you are able to find meaningful connections and hopefully find a life partner.

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You might never find a life partner, @Pesar, but I'm glad you've at least found a hobby in posting your laments on Toytown. Mazel tov. 

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" Let's assume I'm the worst person in the universe (if that makes you feel good about yourself)! "

Well, I said you were brave and that if you had any issues then you were not alone because everyone does at some point in their lives.

But sure, if you insist, then let's assume you're the worst person in the universe and Berlin is the worst place to date in the galaxy. It's terrible. There's no way, with that set of cards, that you will ever, ever find a partner. My condolences. Has anyone suggested singles dance classes yet?

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@dessa_dangerous I think it isn't that terrible.

There are lots of people in this city - with different mind sets.

But you are in a poor situation if you really really want to find someone.


Imagine a Friday night. You want a one night stand.

So you take a shower and put a fresh t-shirt on - and off to the bar.

You will probably sleep alone this night.

 

We all send out signals - and yours scare the prey away.

 

Another Friday night. All you want is to be alone under many,

have some beer and listen to the music.

Suddenly you talk for hours with someone nice.

You'll have breakfast together.

 

You really really want an everlasting love.
You try so hard to make that happen.
After all you deserve it.
Again your signals ...

 

You are in a happy relationship.

For some stupid reason you happen to know one nice person after the other

(and you curse thinking of how difficult that was before your relationship).
Again your signals ...

 

Breaking this vicious circle is tricky.

Relax and listen to the music
get rid of this stinky smell of desperation.
The rest is luck & some social skills

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And to think that we were just sitting in the beautiful Augustiner Biergarted a while ago and there was one table full of a stag party and 2 tables full of bride parties. 

 

OK, it's Munich but still.

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3 hours ago, anne k said:

" Let's assume I'm the worst person in the universe (if that makes you feel good about yourself)! "

Well, I said you were brave and that if you had any issues then you were not alone because everyone does at some point in their lives.

But sure, if you insist, then let's assume you're the worst person in the universe and Berlin is the worst place to date in the galaxy. It's terrible. There's no way, with that set of cards, that you will ever, ever find a partner. My condolences. Has anyone suggested singles dance classes yet?

I was attending dance classes before lockdowns ruled that option out. Several times I tried to just have a little small talk just to maybe get to know someone with no expectations. Every time to be reminded that "This is a dance class and I'm not here to talk with men!!!". Then the lockdowns came. The new normal.

 

5 hours ago, kiplette said:

 

My take on that is that you get to know people for themselves, and as you become part of a group it becomes easier to know/find out who is who etc. This is a long-ish term strategy - but then finding a life partner is a big investment. Definitely you can't just come out and say - I am looking for a partner. That is creepy, you are right.

 

The group you join does need to have the right makeup - my two activities - one is mixed age but there are fewer than 40 people so although we have singles of both sexes, if that's what you are looking for, choice is obviously restricted.

The other activity is a large group, 150+, and although it is mostly older people, lots of married people, there are still enough for there to be various singles around of different ages. If I was looking specifically for a partner, I would maybe join two of those type of groups, to widen the options. Then I would need lots of free time, I suppose. It would be a gamble as to whether someone suitable is present in those groups. This is an activity I enjoy. That is important, because you are then spending time having fun regardless of the relationship outcome.

 

This is theoretical for me, but still meant sincerely. I agree people are increasingly dislocated, and that must be more so in a huge city. I hope you are able to find meaningful connections and hopefully find a life partner.

Before people becoming masked that was my plan. Sadly even after knowing tens of people for long enough time all I learned from those groups I was joining was what I already wrote here: everyone wants to be happy alone. No one wants to be in a relationship. Then the lockdowns came and people are with 2 meter distance if not locked down in their homes.

 

5 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

Not only does it feel like most younger people around me are single (compared to 10 years ago, when it seemed that everyone my own age was also in a long-term relationship), it also seems like more people middle-aged and up (50+) are single, and have little intention to change it.  They've gone through marriages/relationships, raised or are raising kids, separated from their partners and are now so consumed with regaining some semblance of peace in their lives that a new relationship is the furthest thing from their minds.  So that's one section that might be single the rest of their lives.  And, I wonder, in another ten years, will the younger people also be middle-aged people who have never had a serious relationship?  I wonder about the rise of polyamory, open relationships and all these "arrangements" and "dating" that people in their 20s, 30s and 40s are doing, never learning how to be in long-term monogamous relationships with all their work and compromise.  If someone doesn't suit you, you're encouraged to find someone else, and the internet tells you that all you have to do is put your info in an app and go on enough dates and poof!  Eventually, after you sift through all the bullshit, you will finally find a partner that requires no work and no compromise who likes everything you like and shares all your same views and thinks and operates exactly like you do and you will live happily ever after in perfect, effortless harmony.  If you don't get what you want from one person, consider dating several people!  Find others who are also willing to share and be shared!  This is healthy!  Normal!  Modern!  Hip!  So no one is ever developing the skills of being in an adult, exclusively two-person relationship.  That is what I see around me, anyway.  And so I wonder if in 10-15 years it's just going to be a bunch of aging single people who are super sad because they spent so much time thinking they can have it all that they never tried to build something real, with one person, to get old with.  I dunno.  The trends I see in my circles are frankly worrying.

 

Most obvious outcome is the birthrate that goes down and suicide rate that goes up. There are more complicated outcomes as well. For example more and more dependant toward government help for old and single people with no children.

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Is there a Cliff Notes version of this topic?  I have the OP's solution, but I don't have time to read his problem.

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26 minutes ago, Pesar said:

Most obvious outcome is the birthrate that goes down ..

 

Not necessarily a bad thing since the globe is over-populated (contributes to Global Warming).

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