Dating Scene of Germany: Emotionally Unavailable

[Pesar 26]

Last year I posted a topic  How to date without tinder. The idea was that I'm looking for a long time relationship and for some reason (Not being photogenic), online dating apps has never ever worked for me (And still are the same). So I was looking for other ways to find a date. There were several suggestions on that topic. Only a few of them slightly helped me on the way, for which I'm thankful of all people who responded there. General idea was to form a social circle slowly until someone within this circle is a young and single woman and is interested in starting a relationship. In the end, except a few unsuccessful cases, I could almost never find a date. Building such a social circle in Germany could take years if not decades. But then the corona lockdown came and it was officially a gameover to any effort to find a date out of online services. Whoever is doing ok with apps like tinder, I'm happy for you. It just never works for me. So what I'm writing here is about my experience in the past (Before corona) and asking for some ideas for future when hopefully things get back to normal.

Emotionally Unavailable

I was looking for a partner for a long time relationship until I hit this wall. It means people who are just unavailable for anything emotional. Anything! If you search the term online you find its symptoms. I was subscribing to a speed dating event and paying the fee and waiting more than a month for the date to come and wearing my best cloths just to see that absolutely no one from the opposite sex is there! Women were paying in advance to book a sit there, but they were just not showing up! Simple as that. None. No body. Empty sits.

I was going to meetups of various topics, talking, flirting, making young women laugh, finally exchnage phone number, just to never hear back. Letting it sink a bit and then message the other person..., just radio silence. Never any reply.

Sometimes seeing the same person who ghosted me again in another meeting and asking her like "Hey! Where have you been. I've messaged you".

- "Oh! Yeah. Honestly I'm very busy and I never have any chance to reply to any of my messages. Actually all of my friends complain that I never return their messages...".

Going to a XYZ event, enjoying the event alone, having a glance at girls whom are there alone too, planning to talk with a few of them after the event. But once the event is over, they all run away as fast as possible with headphones in, so that no body can talk to them. I experienced it always everywhere I went. Dance class, language class, concert, standup comedy, theater, even church service. It happened to me a few times to insist on talking to a women after an event and the result was the other person honestly telling me that the reason she is running away is that she doesn't want to talk to anyone!

After a long time research I realized what I'm facing is called "Emotional Unavailability". And I was able to see it everywhere. Men and women more or less never wanted anything involved with emotions. Everyone is seeking just temporary excitement and always every time with No Strings Attached. They enjoy activities like gym, dance, language, or church, but they don't want to be emotionally involved with anyone anywhere anytime. Seems like people just want to be alone.

Gender Disparity in Emotional Unavailability

So are men and women equally emotionally unavailable? I think there's a gender disparity here. I was seeing almost all men were attending the speed dating event while almost no woman was attending. In some cases that I was organizing a meeting of various topic, number of women who RSVP'ed but never showed up was by average 5 times higher than that of men. In cases when I was asking my acquaintances out, most of the time women were answering by "I check my calendar and I get back to you" which was never happening. I barely received this response of my male friends. It might be that men are more interested in finding friendships and relationships and committing to it than women.
How do people have sex then?

Let me tell you what I, as a thirty and something years old single man am seeing in this society:

There's a lot of one-night-stands going on in a city like Berlin. For women, No Strings Attached Sex is always free (If not even compensated). All they have to do is to approach a man in night club and ask for sex. They never receive a negative response. Naturally though, every such person would prefer to approach the sexiest man they can find. For men though, it's usually comes with a price, unless the man has extraordinary and exceptionally gorgeous and astonishing body and face. The price is not that high, but the man should be willing to sleep with a prostitute. Be it paid in a brothel or for free after a nightclub, for men and women it's the same: Meaningless experience with no emotional strings attached. Nothing. Just living in the moment.

Am I the only one who is looking for a relationship?

I'm not saying that every young person is promiscuous. There certainly must be people whom are looking to have sex only in a relationship. But the question is how many percents of young people are looking for a relationship?

If you search google maps for Dating Coach service, how many results do you find in a city like Berlin?

Zero!

None! Nothing. Not because no body ever thought of this idea of helping people find a date or just match making. I think because there is no customer for this business at all. I'm getting to the idea that if I'm not the only person in this country who is in his thirties and is single and is looking for a relationship, at least I belong to a minority. I can see people in their forties or fifties and are looking for a partner. But hardly any younger person. (Now whenever I talk about it with my friends they keep insisting on me having a relationship with someone ten or twenty years older than me! I'm tried of describing why I don't want that. I'm just done with that topic).

So... what?

First of all, corona means death of dating for people who does not receive any benefits from online dating apps (Refer to my other topic). Let's imagine Germany gets back to normal with dance classes and gyms and parties:

• Any idea how to meet young women who want a relationship is highly appreciated.
• Anyone with similar situation (are you a man or woman? How old are you?) Please share your experience here.
• Anyone thinks any of my arguments above is wrong is welcomed to correct me. Because I would be more than happy to find out that the atmosphere around me is not as dark as I am seeing and that there are things that I overlooked and opportunities to find love that I just neglected.

[Pesar 26]

PS: Seems like Dating Coach is a bad term to search for such service in Germany. Single-Treff seems to be the right term. That only returns One results and customer reviews on google maps show that most customers are again men and their experience is horrifying. See below report also on RTL:

https://www.rtl.de/cms/partner-vermittlung-zockt-single-rentnerin-ab-4304108.html

[Pesar 26]

Can The Good Guys Ever Win in the War of the Sexes?

"Good men – men who genuinely want to relate to a woman in more ways than only sexually – are the men who will choose not to approach a woman, whether out of shyness or worry that he'll come across as creepy. Those are the men who respect womens' personhood and don't see them as a mere collection of female body parts. Those are the men women should encourage to approach them. Those are the men that women are looking for when they complain that there are no good men. Yet those are the men that see the paradox of dating – that women say they want confident men, but will complain about you if you approach her as a decent man (as opposed to an overconfident blowhard) and will be turned off – and often choose not to even bother."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/test-case/201302/can-the-good-guys-ever-win-in-the-war-the-sexes

 

And this one from last year:

In the 2019 dating world, nobody meets in person anymore

This is dating in 2019, when young people have never courted in a world without Tinder, and bars are often dotted with dolled-up singles staring at their phones. Technology has changed how people are introduced, and fewer people meet in public places that were once playgrounds for singles. At the same time, awareness of what is and isn’t sexual harassment has left people cautious about come-ons that were once seen as cute and are now called out as creepy.

“Ten years ago, it was that random encounter,” said Smith, a 37-year-old consultant who lives in Fairmount. “Now, people don’t want to do the traditional thing. They just want to swipe.”

https://www.inquirer.com/news/online-dating-tinder-bumble-okcupid-match-meet-cute-20190213.html

[RedMidge 6,387]

How young do you, as a 30 something man, want your future life partner to be?

Many women in their 20s are not looking for a long term relationship yet. Many have careers, interests, want to travel, and have some fun.

 

[dstanners 1,206]

Ha, yes I remember this thread from last year, and thinking at the time that you came across as too desperate, and as though your attempts to find "the one" resembled a hunting expedition. The line below suggests too little has changed (it reads way more like a fishing trip than a genuine attempt at starting a relationship):

1 hour ago, Pesar said:

General idea was to form a social circle slowly until someone within this circle is a young and single woman and is interested in starting a relationship

The thing about building a social circle, was to get a social life: make/meet friends and have a good time. It wasn't meant to be a trap for young, single women! The additional benefit for you would be that by increasing your social circle you might also (as a by product, not as an aim) meet someone who wanted a relationship with you, or meet people who knew someone who might want a relationship with you. 

So: find something sociable that you like doing and do it. That way, the worst that will happen is that you will enjoy yourself.  Don't be so desperate for a relationship.

[pmd 612]

Hi Pesar,

 

How many times have you gone to dancing lessons? That is one activity that you are nearly guaranteed to have at least a 50/50 female / male split.

 

I can't remember if I gave this advice last time: When I was single in Ireland, I joined a hiking club - again, the gender balance was around 50/50. Also, because we met up early Sunday mornings, the people who attended were sporty and not really into the night club scene. Here is a hiking club in Berlin:

https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/Berlin-Hikers/

 

Hope this helps.

[confu 14]

Most people would be turned off if you came across to them as desperately as you do in these posts, not only women and not only in Germany. Speaking as a woman in my 20s, very few people I know are actively looking for serious relationships, but most would commit if the right person came along. Since you're in your 30s, why not look for a woman around your own age?

 

That said, the "right person" looks and acts very differently for each person. It's not a matter of being a "nice guy." You should be compelling and live a full life. The blog you're citing from 2013 also does not reflect the post-#MeToo ethos: women are not turned off by respect. Being confident is not the same as being obnoxious, and there is a large grey area between being obnoxious and being a doormat.

 

To start, it makes sense to try to build a more three-dimensional life so you become less desperate. Some things you can do to actively make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex, while taking your mind off of dating, include:

• Developing hobbies (+ joining clubs/groups with people who share your interests... you may naturally meet women while doing so. pmd's suggestion for dancing lessons is a good one);
• Working out (it puts you in a better mood and helps you become more attractive);
• Volunteering (an altruistic guy is attractive... you may also meet women while doing so);
• Making friends (re: social circles... a guy who has friends is also attractive); etc.

There are many other opportunities that I'm sure will become available as Germany starts to open up again.

Good luck!

[pmd 612]

5 minutes ago, pmd said:

Hi Pesar,

 

How many times have you gone to dancing lessons? That is one activity that you are nearly guaranteed to have at least a 50/50 female / male split.

 

I can't remember if I gave this advice last time: When I was single in Ireland, I joined a hiking club - again, the gender balance was around 50/50. Also, because we met up early Sunday mornings, the people who attended were sporty and not really into the night club scene. Here is a hiking club in Berlin:

https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/Berlin-Hikers/

 

Hope this helps.

 

I see the Berlin Hikers have a nude hike organised for June!! :-)

 

[john g. 34,991]

With or without masks, pmd! The mind boggles!😂

[john g. 34,991]

1 hour ago, confu said:

Most people would be turned off if you came across to them as desperately as you do in these posts, not only women and not only in Germany. Speaking as a woman in my 20s, very few people I know are actively looking for serious relationships, but most would commit if the right person came along. Since you're in your 30s, why not look for a woman around your own age?

 

That said, the "right person" looks and acts very differently for each person. It's not a matter of being a "nice guy." You should be compelling and live a full life. The blog you're citing from 2013 also does not reflect the post-#MeToo ethos: women are not turned off by respect. Being confident is not the same as being obnoxious, and there is a large grey area between being obnoxious and being a doormat.

 

To start, it makes sense to try to build a more three-dimensional life so you become less desperate. Some things you can do to actively make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex, while taking your mind off of dating, include:

• Developing hobbies (+ joining clubs/groups with people who share your interests... you may naturally meet women while doing so. pmd's suggestion for dancing lessons is a good one);
• Working out (it puts you in a better mood and helps you become more attractive);
• Volunteering (an altruistic guy is attractive... you may also meet women while doing so);
• Making friends (re: social circles... a guy who has friends is also attractive); etc.

There are many other opportunities that I'm sure will become available as Germany starts to open up again.

Good luck!

Some very nice empathetic points there, confu!🙏🏻 A personal view from someone who was very “ down “ for several years way back then.. haven’t we all been through this?

Dancing lessons! It wasn’t planned in my case. Two left feet mostly in my case! I was at a fitness studio in Hamburg twenty years ago, having a coffee, and four women came along during their break from dancing lessons. They were beautifully dressed and were learning flamenco dancing!

I thought: “ wonder what they are up to “ and they actually said “ come upstairs.. the lessons are fun.”

 

I ended up joining the group- me, the only male, easily the worst dancer and, hey presto,  one of the women there and a really good dancer laughed every time I went there over weeks and months.

 

I had all the “ gear “, the shirt, the shoes etc!!

But I kept falling over trying to do pirouettes or whatever. I even fell over “ plucking fruit “ in one of the basic exercises.

 

I fall over for different reasons these days!😂

 

Twenty years ago and the dancer who was great at it - and still is - is called Nicole and we have been together for twenty years.

 

Now, another guy at the place ie the fitness studio , used to hang around the bar whenever Formula One was on the telly elsewhere in the place! He reckoned women would seek refuge from car racing and find him “ different.”😂

 

No idea what happened to him. I hope he found the love of his life.

Basically, to the OP, someone out there is waiting to be your soul partner in life- don’t force it! If love is waiting for you, be patient.🙏🏻

[Darcy Turner 0]

Hi, 

I could give you a free consultation, write me a personal message and we will work from there.    

[evildudette 2,268]

I'm a woman in my 30s based in Berlin.  I can tell you now that there are a lot of single women (the ones I know are almost all expats) who would love to find a partner and have a relationship. They often talk about how Berlin sucks to find someone as people are focused more on hookups - I saw the same phenomenon myself.

 

However, you come across as really desperate, and everything you do seems to be around finding a girlfriend. Women can spot that a mile away and it's not attractive.  You have received some good advice above.

 

I would also question your description of women being 'emotionally unavailable' because they may be less likely to turn up to things. I don't know whether that's true, but even if it is, that doesn't make them emotionally unavailable.

[yourkeau 7,267]

5 hours ago, Pesar said:

So are men and women equally emotionally unavailable? I think there's a gender disparity here. I was seeing almost all men were attending the speed dating event while almost no woman was attending.

It's called demographics, dude. There are physically more women in Germany than men, so some 2 million men have no chance in finding a partner even if every woman would permanently be in a relationship with a man. 

 

Why you're the one who do not have partner I don't know as I do not know you. I can only reassure you than not only you fail to find a partner in Germany, there are both German men and women who opt to get a foreign partner for the same reason.

 

Try your luck in other countries. If you're really desperate.

 

[evildudette 2,268]

5 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

It's called demographics, dude. There are physically more women in Germany than men, so some 2 million men have no chance in finding a partner even if every woman would permanently be in a relationship with a man. 

 

 

 

Erm...did you mean one of those statistics the other way around? If there are more women than men, then it would be possible for every man to be in a relationship and for women to be left over.

[Fromm 36]

19 hours ago, evildudette said:

 

However, you come across as really desperate, and everything you do seems to be around finding a girlfriend. Women can spot that a mile away and it's not attractive. 

 

 

Yes to this. Just the fact that you are looking for a girlfriend might already be making you unattractive. Probably the best thing you could do for now is to just focus on self-improvement and competence. Women like men who can demonstrate competence, at their work or in social engagements. I think just being happy can also show competence to a certain level. Money helps too. A sense of humor can show intellectual competence. Know how to show competence and put yourself in situations where you can demonstrate it. "Get in where U fit in" as Too Short says..

 

Women need a reason to want to have sex with you. A woman saw you playing basketball and thought you were hot- that's a reason! You show authority at your workplace and a women gets turned on- that's another reason! You wear nice clothes and dress nice? That's a reason! (Knowing how to dress is important. There are some very good tips on youtube)

 

Be Nice! Everyone always says nice guys finish last or never get the girl or whatever. That's not true. Women will respond to you treating them well, even more-so here in Germany than in the US. It's almost as if women expect to get treated like crap here. Maybe they do, I dunno. Hold the door open for women. If they drop something, pick it up for them. Don't over do it, just be sincere. Don't just follow a girl around all day, doing nice stuff for her or she will think you are crazy! Treat them with respect and learn how to make them feel comfortable around you. One thing I can tell you, women generally do not like being approached from the side. It makes them feel uncomfortable and if you look carefully you can notice them tense up a bit when they are approached this way. They want you to approach them from the front.(Men are just the opposite) If there is no room to get in front of her, then lean to side a bit and try to get your eyes level with hers. Even if she is much smaller than you and you have to lean down quite a bit, do it.

 

As far you wanting a woman who is "Emotionally Available", you can forget about that bs. The only women who is ever really going to care about you in that way is your mom. And your girlfriend is not going to be your mom. Remember woman do not love men as much as we love them. That's just part of being a man. When a man has been with a woman he loves for years and years and she dies, often that man will not eat. He will not sleep. He will not speak. He will sit there until he dies, literally from a broken heart. And that wont take long. When a woman loses a spouse, yeah she's sad for while but she will get over it. That's just how it is. Anyway good luck. "TELL US HOW YOU DO!!!" - David Lee Roth 

 

 

 

 

 

[black1 1,686]

You siad dating apps don't help you but real life seems to not be working out either. Try Parship if you haven't already, it's really big here and seem to work for people. Get a really good picture from a really good photographer. Do your ad and show it here before you put it up and ffs listen to what people tell you. Crap photo and weirdo blurb is not going to help you.

[karin_brenig 466]

OK - my dating experience(s) are from the past - way before the internet was even a thing, and nobody owned a smartphone. But what I learned back then is still true today: you'll find the real treasures when you aren't even looking.

 

Love yourself, and you will exude confidence. Be extremely good at something, anything, and show off that talent - you'll exude confidence. Don't pull yourself down with thoughts (or statements) like "I'm ugly, I'm stupid, nobody wants to be with me, everybody is emotionally unavailable...".

 

You are your own worst enemy - just reading your posting here makes me think... you need a therapist more than you need a partner.

 

Good luck, relax, good things will come to those who can wait :)

[Pesar 26]

I wonder if those who judged me here and generously insulted me (desperate, need therapy, etc.) are in a relationship themselves? According to statistics (EuroStats), Berlin is among the cities with least number of people in a relationship. Most people (specially those below 40) live with a cat or dog or a child from a previous relationship. Let's assume all the accusations and personal attacks here against me are correct. So what? Does that mean there is no problem in Berlin and in Germany for relationships? If everyone are happily in a relationship then why are you living alone and trying to "love yourself"?? I'm just brave enough to start a discussion around this.

 

Here is what I have found:

• When someone cannot find something (Relationship or Apartment or Job, whatever), he might go to a forum and report the problem. That is natural. Now some people jump to post a comment like "Oh you sound so desperate. That is why you cannot find a girlfriend/partner/soulmate/wife/etc). In simple words, this fallacy can be written as below:

  Quote

  You are desperate because you reported this problem
  You have this problem because you are desperate

  
  Basically swapping cause and effect. I don't argue with these people. Some study around fallacies and Binary and Fuzzy logic is advised for them.
• Outside of religion (Specially Christianity), there is no logical description for necessity of a life-time relationship. Why would anyone every seek a relationship when he or she can enjoy a variety of sex partners?
• The societies with highest rates of relationships (For example number of people per household statistics or birth-rate or marriage rate), are the societies with highest importance of religion.
• In Germany religion doesn't matter to most people. Same as relationships. As my Atheist friend once told me: "Why are you looking for a relationship when you can buy sex for 50 to 100 euros?!" Seriously why?! /sarcasm
• Computer Generated Images (CGI) have flooded tinder, facebook, youtube and instagram. As long as you are comparing faces you see in real life to those you see on these services, everyone look ugly to you. Once you stop using these services, people around you will look normal! No surprise there is less and less relationships every year.
• Self-love! Oh self-love. What is a default animal instinct and happens normally in any living creature is defined as a merit for human being! Just love yourself. Well, thank you! That's very humble. If your parents or my parents loved themselves, then they would have aborted their babies in the first place! Love yourself enough and you never find place to love anyone else.

  On 5/18/2020, 12:38:22, karin_brenig said:

  Love yourself, and you will exude confidence

• If you are reading this post because you feel like me, then an advice from me to you:
  Once you're done looking for a relationship in Germany, look who the hell has any relationship at all! Almost everyone are alone. People go in groups of girls-only/boys-only to outdoor activities. And an army of dog owners walking everywhere!

So what's the solution? I think I know the solution, but it is impossible for a me, as just an average person in the city, to apply this solution. Here is the solution in an imaginary utopia:

• People must stop loving themselves and give and seek love outside

And all the rest depends on this!

 

[BobbyDigital 672]

OK

[yourkeau 7,267]

Pesar, do you have a job with a German company?