Entering Germany during the restrictions

[engelchen 13,040]

2 hours ago, Dembo said:

The point I was trying to make, obviously unsuccessfully, is how is that decided? If me and the OP both turned up at Frankfurt Airport at the same time how would this Polizist decide that I'm resident and he's not?

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse or is this a serious question?

 

2 hours ago, Dembo said:

I'm not planning on going anywhere, but it is a bit worrying that I could be denied access to my home country despite the fact that I'm legally entitled to enter according the rules decided by the government.

 

I have given up trying to explain fine legal distinctions here, but it is really not as arbitrary as you make it sound.

[alexunterwegs 540]

1 hour ago, Feierabend said:

I have been asked for an updated Anmeldebestätigung at least twice, e.g when doing a Postident to open an online savings account. 

As the UK passport doesn't include an address and we can't get a Personalausweis, it would seem sensible to have one for (necessary!) travel in these times.

 

 

I've googled around this topic and can't find anything saying the authorities can require an updated Anmeldebestatigung where someone is still living at the same address. 

That some Beamte at passport control could demand one sounds very dubious. Would suggest they are just trying it on. Boils down to what kind of mood he/she is in, or whether his football team lost at the weekend! 

[john g. 37,689]

Alexunterwegs- your final sentence- wisdom👍🏼

[kato 3,559]

49 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

I've googled around this topic and can't find anything saying the authorities can require an updated Anmeldebestatigung where someone is still living at the same address. 

 

 

The Meldebescheinigung only confirms the address at the time of issue, and has no regular expiration date since it literally only contains exactly that. Whether any person requiring a Meldebescheinigung accepts it as valid proof of current (!) address at any date other than the issueing date is entirely up to them, and for Behörden is usually addressed in internal regulations (with 3, 6 or 12 months being most common depending on the purpose).

[john g. 37,689]

I first arrived in Hamburg c. 1989. My local was a live music bar. The owner and bartender was called Lupus and he played the sax there sometimes as well. Very liberal guy and good- natured.

 

One evening, and I don‘t remember how it started.. but I told him I didn‘t have an Ausweiss and didn‘t ever need to „ anmelden“ back in England. “ No such thing.”

His response: “ but how do they control you?”

 

Yep!

Be careful, people. Ok, we have a Notstand but  these things have a way to perpetuate. 
 

[alexunterwegs 540]

21 minutes ago, kato said:

 

The Meldebescheinigung only confirms the address at the time of issue, and has no regular expiration date since it literally only contains exactly that. Whether any person requiring a Meldebescheinigung accepts it as valid proof of current (!) address at any date other than the issueing date is entirely up to them, and for Behörden is usually addressed in internal regulations (with 3, 6 or 12 months being most common depending on the purpose).

 

I can fully understand where Bundespolizei want to establish who someone is, and an Einmeldebestatigung doesn't help much there, but that is another issue.  However, I'd find it completly unreasonable to bar someone's entry to D if they could  establish their identity and they had an Einmeldebestatigung. If there is a definite end date to the validity, that needs to be stated somewhere. Otherwise, its just a random number dreamed up by the Beamte. Not very German.  

If it happened at an airport, presumably they'd be forcing someone to fly back to where they came from and re-apply from overseas.  

 

Would be most interested to hear from anyone on this Forum, German or otherwise, who goes backwards and forwards to the Einmeldeamt every 3,6 or 12 months to get their Einmeldebestatigung updated. 

 

 

[HH_Sailor 3,536]

Can't remember what I needed it for, but I did have to get the Meldebescheinigung renewed as it was over 6 months old. Some office said 'no, can't accept it, it's too old'

(Maybe applying for a bank loan?)

 

A while ago, as I have DE Ausweis now. 

[bramble 9,587]

The webpage of the Bundespolizei gives detailed information regarding the subject at hand: 

https://www.bundespolizei.de/Web/DE/04Aktuelles/01Meldungen/2020/03/200317_faq.html;jsessionid=A70CDDE374592B7800E04AC077A08ABC.2_cid289?nn=5931604#doc13824392bodyText8

 

If you need more of the information available on that site use   https://www.deepl.com/translator

 

Which documents must be presented when crossing the border?
Travellers must present a valid and recognised passport or a valid and recognised passport replacement document when crossing the border.

In addition, travellers who are subject to the visa requirement must present a valid and recognised residence permit or visa.

In addition, proof of the necessity to cross the border may be required.

 

What rules apply to the external borders?
In order to slow down the spread of the corona virus in Germany and Europe and to break through chains of infection, travel restrictions also exist at the external borders.

 

2. entry
Who may enter Germany?
In principle, the following groups of people are allowed to enter Germany at the borders concerned:

• Persons with German nationality
• Persons with a German residence permit
• Persons with residence in Germany
• commuters (proofs should be carried along)
• Persons who have valid reasons for entry (proofs should be carried) The decision is made by the official on the spot.

 

The international movement of goods is not restricted, regardless of the nationality of the driving personnel.

If there are indications of an infection with the corona virus (SARS-CoV-2), the local health authority will take deviating measures in accordance with the Infection Protection Act, if necessary.

 

Persons who are not German nationals may enter the country under the following conditions:

• to travel home to Germany, if they have their legal habitual residence (first home) here.
• to establish a place of residence in Germany only if this is necessary to maintain a family unit already existing abroad (accompaniment or subsequent immigration to Germany). Third-country nationals also require a Category D visa.
• to exercise a professional activity and/or to perform contractual services (including commuters, health and care workers, EU parliamentarians, accredited diplomats). This also applies to temporary workers in the food industry and specialised contract workers (such as assembly workers, tunnel builders, concrete workers). Suitable documents (commuter certificate, employment contract, order documents, cross-border commuter card) must be carried along.
• for transit to the home country, provided that there is no alternative travel connection and provided that entry to this country and transit through transit states is possible. Proof of the purpose of the journey and the entry requirements for the destination and transit states must be provided (passport, registration certificate, residence permit, tickets or air tickets). Under these conditions, it is also possible to enter by land in order to depart from an airport located in Germany.

 

Entry for tourist purposes, shopping or visiting trips are no longer permitted.

 

3. other
When is entry refused?
Entry will be refused if you do not belong to any of the above-mentioned groups of persons or if you cannot prove that you do. Entry may also be refused if you show symptoms of illness. In these cases, the competent health authority will be consulted for a decision by the Federal Police.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[bramble 9,587]

On 9.4.2020, 16:42:58, captainobvious said:

Hi all, have any non-germans or non-residency holders managed to enter Germany even though foreign nationals are currently not allowed in? 

 

I don't have a residency permit but I do have a registered German address of which I used to get my German driving licence. I am normally there every weekend with the girlfriend and her family and work a UK job during the week. I am not intending on travelling this month as I want to wait a while longer for things to get better, but just curious if i should have the right to enter or not purely based on having an address there. If so i may look into staying there in self imposed isolation and working remotely until things get fully back to normal.

 

Gary

 

 

I think this part answers your question: 

 

May I enter Germany as a non-German citizen, if...

 

5. ... I would like to visit my spouse or partner?

Visiting trips are not permitted. This also applies if both partners live and work in different countries and have visited each other regularly in the past.

 

18. ... I want to move to my second home in Germany?

In this case, entry is generally not possible.

 

https://www.bundespolizei.de/Web/DE/04Aktuelles/01Meldungen/2020/03/200317_faq.html

[bramble 9,587]

Reading this thread there seems to be some confusion concerning Anmeldebestätigung (registration confirmation) and Meldebescheinigung (certificate of registration / proof of residence). 

 

Everyone has to register at the Einwohnermeldeamt when they move to a new addresss and for that you get an Anmeldebestätigung (registration confirmation). On the other hand you will need a Meldebescheinigung (certificate of regstration / proof of residence) in certain circumstances, explained here:  https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/faqs/DE/themen/moderne-verwaltung/meldewesen/meldewesen.html

 

In future, citizens will be able to decide for themselves to a large extent which of their data stored in the registration register is to be included in a registration certificate. A certificate of registration is often required for presentation, for example to banks, schools or authorities. Up to now, the data to be included in a simple or extended registration certificate has been defined by law.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

In the cases mentioned above you have to apply for a Meldebescheinigung which is valid from 3 months to 1 year. The last time I needed a Meldebescheinigung was for a Lebensbescheinigung (life certificate), which the British Pension Service wanted as proof that I was still alive. This was about 2 or 3 years ago.  

 

Edit: Here the difference is explained again in English:  https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/replacement-meldebescheinigung

[arunadasi 7,074]

1 hour ago, bramble said:

 

 

In the cases mentioned above you have to apply for a Meldebescheinigung which is valid from 3 months to 1 year. The last time I needed a Meldebescheinigung was for a Lebensbescheinigung (life certificate), which the British Pension Service wanted as proof that I was still alive. This was about 2 or 3 years ago.  

 

 

 

Off-topic, but that Lebensbescheinigung will be the death of me, no pun intended.  The various German pension services requires it every year. I have to go to the Embassy in Dublin to get it. The problem is I have three separate German pensions (Beamten, normal, public service) and they each require their own Bescheinigung every year! This year I got the Embassy to make copies of the original so I could use those, but no, each of these want their own document, meaning I have to go 3 times as they come at different times of the year. When the public service one refused to accept the Beamten one I wrote them to say I can't go to Dublin during lockdown and they agreed to wait.
I know they say you can get it signed by other institutions such as bank, police etc. I tried this but nobody would do it.

 

As there is no such thing as an Anmeldung in Ireland, they take my word for it that I live at the given address. At least they can confirm that I am alive, which is the main thing!

[engelchen 13,040]

14 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

That some Beamte at passport control could demand one sounds very dubious. Would suggest they are just trying it on. Boils down to what kind of mood he/she is in, or whether his football team lost at the weekend! 

 

No! It does not. Just because you can't understand the laws, does not mean that don't exist!

 

12 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

I can fully understand where Bundespolizei want to establish who someone is, and an Einmeldebestatigung doesn't help much there, but that is another issue.  However, I'd find it completly unreasonable to bar someone's entry to D if they could  establish their identity and they had an Einmeldebestatigung. If there is a definite end date to the validity, that needs to be stated somewhere. Otherwise, its just a random number dreamed up by the Beamte. Not very German.  

If it happened at an airport, presumably they'd be forcing someone to fly back to where they came from and re-apply from overseas.  

 

You have completely missed the point of the current laws as well as the info that Bramble has quoted. Just because you are ignorant of how border controls work, doesn't mean that you should start rumours. 

[HH_Sailor 3,536]

6 hours ago, bramble said:

The webpage of the Bundespolizei gives detailed information regarding the subject at hand: 

https://www.bundespolizei.de/Web/DE/04Aktuelles/01Meldungen/2020/03/200317_faq.html;jsessionid=A70CDDE374592B7800E04AC077A08ABC.2_cid289?nn=5931604#doc13824392bodyText8

 

 

Thanks to @bramble for detailing all this info !

 

Anyone reading this will notice that it is currently possible to enter Germany via road from the Netherlands.

 

However, France, Luxemburg  and Belgium are subject to the above detailed restrictions.

There was talk in the news,  last week,  that the border to Netherlands would be closed shortly too.

 

You'll need all your paperwork and an ability to convince the Borderpolice that you are allowed in...

[bramble 9,587]

2 hours ago, arunadasi said:

 

Off-topic, but that Lebensbescheinigung will be the death of me, no pun intended.  The various German pension services requires it every year. I have to go to the Embassy in Dublin to get it. The problem is I have three separate German pensions (Beamten, normal, public service) and they each require their own Bescheinigung every year! This year I got the Embassy to make copies of the original so I could use those, but no, each of these want their own document, meaning I have to go 3 times as they come at different times of the year. When the public service one refused to accept the Beamten one I wrote them to say I can't go to Dublin during lockdown and they agreed to wait.
I know they say you can get it signed by other institutions such as bank, police etc. I tried this but nobody would do it.

As there is no such thing as an Anmeldung in Ireland, they take my word for it that I live at the given address. At least they can confirm that I am alive, which is the main thing!

 

Yes, this is of topic, but to clarify, it's true that the Deutsche Rentenversicherung wants anual confirmation that you are still alive when living as a pensioner abroad, but it's not their fault that Ireland and Britain don't have a registry system, which would make things a lot easier. Taking someone's word for it is simply not enough. Here's a site, with info on all this:

https://rentenbescheid24.de/produkte/deutsche-im-ausland/internationale-rentenberatung-durch-rentenbescheid24-de/lebensbescheinigung-fuer-rentner-im-ausland/

 

Deepl. com translation:

Quote

The life certificate is not necessary in some countries.  Through a transnational network, the German Pension Insurance can access the databases of some countries, or the authorities there report the death of the pension recipient themselves. So far, these include Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Belgium, Finland, Sweden and Poland.

 

 

2 hours ago, arunadasi said:

I know they say you can get it signed by other institutions such as bank, police etc. I tried this but nobody would do it.

 

Well, why won't they do it? The German Rentenversicherung will accept it:

 

Deepl.com translation

Quote

 

It is often necessary to certify the certificate before returning it. This can be made at the official offices of the respective countries. These include pension insurance institutions, notaries, banks, hospitals and also the Red Cross. A visit to the consulate or embassy is therefore usually not necessary.

 

As long as you are not a criminal the German registry system is advantageous in many respects. 

[arunadasi 7,074]

45 minutes ago, bramble said:

 

Yes, this is of topic, but to clarify, it's true that the Deutsche Rentenversicherung wants anual confirmation that you are still alive when living as a pensioner abroad, but it's not their fault that Ireland and Britain don't have a registry system, which would make things a lot easier. Taking someone's word for it is simply not enough. Here's a site, with info on all this:

 

Well, they know I am living at that address because they send my my post there. If I didn't live there, I wouldn't have received the letter. So I just fill in the address by myself, and the Consulate has always accepted that without further proof. On the Beamten document there is a box to tick to state your marital status and I always tick "widowed"; the Consulate adds a handwritten note to say they cannot verify this and it is based on my own say-so. That is their only caveat.

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Well, why won't they do it? The German Rentenversicherung will accept it:

 

 

I did try once. I was sent from pillar to post and ended up at some office near the police station. The lady there was extremely suspicious. She said, I don't know you at all! I've never seen you! How can I sign this thing to verify your identity! I won't sign it! I have to consult with my superior! 
 

The bank wouldn't go near it. They don't sign papers they are not familiar with, even though there is an English translation on the document. Trust me, I'd do this if I could!

I ended up going back to Dublin.

 

 

[arunadasi 7,074]

...

[bramble 9,587]

@arunadasi Don't let's discuss this further here as it's off topic and could be deleted. It's an Irish thing in your case. Seems the dogs also run around unregistered where you live. I had no problems when the British Pension service wanted one because my Einwohnermeldeamt issued a life certifcate for me in 5 minutes. Maybe you should have moved to:

47 minutes ago, bramble said:

Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Belgium, Finland, Sweden and Poland.

 

[kiplette 8,677]

@arunadasi  - does the list of people who can sign the thing only include institutions, or does it also include individuals of professional status? The Brit one is quite broad in who can sign it, and we quite often do them for the veterans who live around here - maybe you can find a solicitor or doctor (maybe not just now ) or teacher who would do it?

[Space Cowboy 1,466]

11 hours ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

Thanks to @bramble for detailing all this info !

 

Anyone reading this will notice that it is currently possible to enter Germany via road from the Netherlands.

 

 

 

Yeah, no.  For those who are concerned about coming from the UK - check ferry schedules, check flights,  You won’t get here from there,

[jeba 4,349]

8 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

 

Yeah, no.  For those who are concerned about coming from the UK - check ferry schedules, check flights,  You won’t get here from there,

Maybe it would be possible to book a private flight in a Cessna or similiar? E. g. via https://mitflugzentrale.de/index.aspx?lang=DE&sid=sbmtsijpxivwwbptrxitjdagcymoxheexeohpqcoeqtldjtbnmonodepbfquvurp