4,884 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

I fully agree with you over those things and probably many other things as well, but we can also list a number of things that the, so called  "western counties" have done as well

 

but I would like to see a link to a recognized news source that says China is falsifying the COVID-19 data.

I want to know your source

PS I am not trying to insult you I just want to know the information is correct

That's fine. The trouble with China is that information is withheld and does not come out until years later. For example, we still don't really know how many died in the Great Famine. With one party systems ultimately the Party is unaccountable and in times of crises the Party will look at self protection. Over time the true figures will come out but when a country that has a very good health system has a better recovery record than other countries with an equally as good health service, especially a country with high density living in the towns and cities then you have to ask how can that be.

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It could also be the manner in which they classify the cause of death.  I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that's partly what's happening - I mean we see it with job numbers too, right?  Pay someone a euro an hour and they're no longer "unemployed"

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1 minute ago, lisa13 said:

It could also be the manner in which they classify the cause of death.  I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that's what's happening - I mean we see it with job numbers too, right?  Pay someone a euro an hour and they're no longer "unemployed"

You mean they are putting alternative causes of death down on official documents. Similar to the Concentration camps where just about everyone died of Pneumonia. Is that what you mean?

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6 minutes ago, French bean said:

You mean they are putting alternative causes of death down on official documents. Similar to the Concentration camps where just about everyone died of Pneumonia. Is that what you mean?

 

jesus - calm down.  no that is not what I mean

 

what I mean is that especially for people who have other illnesses, it is not uncommon ANYWHERE for that illness to take top billing and docs have a lot of discretion when citing final cause.

 

for example my mom officially died of "lung cancer" even though she had no lung disfunction or tumors at the time of her death.  It had come back in other organs and that's what did her in (actually pretty sure she was overdosed on fentinyl but why quibble), but technically, it was lung cancer.

 

meanwhile my dad drank himself to death but his cause of death was "heart attack".  

 

chill out

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Indeed. Ultimately everyone dies when their heart stops beating. What caused the heart to stop beating can be a chain of events. Which one gets picked can vary by country. 

 

Personally I'd say the wave simply hasn't hit the weaker members of society here, yet.

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11 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

jesus - calm down.  no that is not what I mean

 

what I mean is that especially for people who have other illnesses, it is not uncommon ANYWHERE for that illness to take top billing and docs have a lot of discretion when citing final cause.

 

for example my mom officially died of "lung cancer" even though she had no lung disfunction or tumors at the time of her death.  It had come back in other organs and that's what did her in (actually pretty sure she was overdosed on fentinyl but why quibble), but technically, it was lung cancer.

 

meanwhile my dad drank himself to death but his cause of death was "heart attack".  

 

chill out

But I thought they had to put down underlying causes as well. The big thing here in Germany is that if someone dies in Hospital there is no further investigation, the cause of death is universally accepted.

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4 minutes ago, French bean said:

But I thought they had to put down underlying causes as well. The big thing here in Germany is that if someone dies in Hospital there is no further investigation, the cause of death is universally accepted.

That´s not correct. The physician issuing the death certificate has to decide between natural death, unnatural death and uncertain reason. In the latter cases the state attorney will investigate.

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3 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Brendan O'Neill (he much loved of Brexiteers) has written a piece typical of him:

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-pub-ban-makes-this-a-dark-day-for-britain

Bit of an anally retentative Turd really. Next he'll be talking about the war, Dunkirk, backs to the wall and all that shit and yet probably hasn't said anything about the 1,000's of pubs that have closed in the last 20 years. Dumbed down for the masses who probably just go the pub once a month and then whinge when their infrequently visited 'local' closes down.

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2 minutes ago, jeba said:

That´s not correct. The physician issuing the death certificate has to decide between natural death, unnatural death and uncertain reason. In the latter cases the state attorney will investigate.

Thanks for clarifying.

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1 minute ago, French bean said:

But I thought they had to put down underlying causes as well. The big thing here in Germany is that if someone dies in Hospital there is no further investigation, the cause of death is universally accepted.

 

I don't get your meaning regarding "underlying causes".  

 

As you say, a doc's word on cause of death is generally accepted.  See above.  There are so many reasons (personal, systemic, who knows) a doc could go with a more "palatable" cause of death - it doesn't have to be a conspiracy.  as murph points out these things vary by country and I'd add culture.

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

whereas in Germany even less severe cases were tested (Germany early on dropped regulatory restrictions on which labs are allowed to test - resulting in higer capacity).

 

I've had a mild but lingering cold since March 12th (it finally loosened its grip as of yesterday afternoon), and I was skiing in Tirol from the 6th to 8th of March.  My GP basically said I can forget being tested because the system is overburdened.  I'd really like that antibody test right about now. 

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I can't find a better online source than this, but a BBC news report this morning was suggesting that Nigeria is seeing a surge in people trying to buy Chloroquine despite the fact that there is no clinical data supporting its use against this corona-virus.

It is very dangerous in overdose, and no-one should self medicate with it.

This is why IMO it is important to take care when reporting interesting research findings.

 

Edited to clarify that my sources are not BBC sources and I am not 100% certain of their quality.

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Is it Peru or the Philippines, Dom?

 

 

OK, again could be a crossover with Brexit but this is specifically about repatriation of Brits so we can all share that proper English virus instead of the foreign stuff.

 

Apparently you can say “Peru” to our foreign secretary for 10 minutes and he still hears “the Philippines”.

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The death rate is so low because the Germans are still busy filling out the paperwork. 

 

Did anyone hear an announcement going through the streets this morning in Munich. I couldn’t hear exactly what was said, but I heard Arbeit and ausgehen. Obviously, it’s related to what they have set up in Munich. 

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6 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Interesting article from the BBC with respect to deaths from CV and whether they would die anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

I disagree with their interpretation. They keep downplaying the situation. Ignoring how they want to manipulate stats, the truth is that the healthcare system is well over capacity.

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2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I disagree with their interpretation. They keep downplaying the situation. Ignoring how they want to manipulate stats, the truth is that the healthcare system is well over capacity.

Yes, I was also concerned with the downplay of the situation but felt it was relevant given the posts earlier today and the BBC is a good source, though not always without bias. Interestingly the title of the article has changed since I first saw it earlier, it was originally something like "Have the experts egged up the CV death count".

 

 

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14 hours ago, yesterday said:

...staggering the Mortality rate  (deaths / total infected) is 8.5 % in Italy...

Don't dare to be too disingenuous now all my posts are being mod-approved before release... but why do people think that Italy (and India - the figures are so low merely means they ain't being counted, not that they haven't got the cases) is capable of counting and presenting correct figures? It is an impossible task even for the more "orderly" and credible (cough) administrations. This numbers game is a farce.

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