10,046 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

on topic--corona is much, much more expensive for everybody all around and would be devastating beyond repair if the governments did nothing to stem it and no one got vaccinated. 

Uh oh now we´re going to get a missive from Balticus or Jonny about how much lockdown and restrictions etc costs the world economy and mental health wise.

Corona is a culling of the weak for some and it doesn´t matter who dies because of freedoms.

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@KelethI mean, if you just tallied up the cost of the loss of productivity due to people calling off sick in non-pandemic times, anyone can see that aside from the collapse of the health system, losing half the workforce to their battles with corona--even if they have a comparatively mild case, and do not require hospitalization--would bring the world economy to its knees rather quickly.  Then don't let's talk about the effects of long covid and the people we already have who will never be able to perform their old jobs again due to impaired brain or motor function.  Not rocket surgery.

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12 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

I mean, if you just tallied up the cost of the loss of productivity due to people calling off sick in non-pandemic times,

Why do that when they can just repeat "but my freedoms".

13 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

anyone can see that aside from the collapse of the health system,

Doesn´t matter apparently as long as only 1% of population dies from it.

14 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

Then don't let's talk about the effects of long covid

It apparently doesn´t exist because there´s no studies on it yet because there hasn´t been enough time.

 

7 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

one day I just woke up and was like, OK, that was it.

This is key I found.Many time I tried to  give up immediately and could never get past a few days.The time I last gave up I decided to give up the next day because the 1st cigarette in the morning I found to be the 1 I missed most and if I could give that up successfully then the rest was no problem.Also found being off work for a couple of weeks helped tremendously because at home there was no routine of smoke breaks while you get the chance etc.

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Has there been any studies on smoking and covid?  I seem to recall that it was suggested, in the early days of the pandemic, that smokers would be  more liable to infection and be worse effected and I wonder if this is indeed to case?

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5 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Has there been any studies on smoking and covid?  I seem to recall that it was suggested, in the early days of the pandemic, that smokers would be  more liable to infection and be worse effected and I wonder if this is indeed to case?

 

I heard the complete opposite, that tar build-up on the lungs of smokers could actually protect their lungs from the infection.  Who knows, but I haven't heard anywhere that smokers are more affected by Covid. There will, no doubt, be studies about all of this at some point in the future, when things settle down again.

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3 hours ago, Keleth said:

What I learned in reha last year in one of those general health lectures is that if you give up smoking it immediately reduces the risk associated with smoking to cause a stroke.It´s not like a gradual healing it happens overnight whereas to get the crap out of your lungs from smoking takes I think they said 7 years.

 

I don't doubt it, from memory the doc. told me you can check how healthy your lifestyle is by counting up various unhealthy things you do or don't do e.g. alcohol, exercise, overeating, fast food etc. (all of which have scores) when you have the total if you smoke you have to multiply it by 3!:blink:

Strangely I don't recall vitamin D and fresh air were listed as having positives.

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13 hours ago, LeonG said:

 

Maybe they are trying to make money of your insurance.  Have you asked your doctor / insurance?  How much is it?

I found this: https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfungen-hausarzt-termine-impfstoff-biontech-astrazeneca-soeder-kosten-praxis-priosirisierung-90315396.html

I got mine at a vaccination center and don't think they even asked about insurance.  A friend got his at a vaccination centre too and I know he was blocked by AOK at the time because he owed them and he did not get a bill.

 

Hi @LeonG,

 

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I've seen similar articles like that, from different sources, all stating that vaccination is free of charge for everyone. So, not sure what I'm missing...

Here is what they are billing me for:

 

Diagnosen: Impfberatung (226.9), Schut zimpfung (226.9)

Für die in unserer Praxis durchgeführte Behandlung stellen wir lhnen nach der Gebührenordnung für Ärzte folgende Leistungen in Rechnung:

 

Datum           Ziffer     Leistung / Begründung          Anzahl    Faktor    Betrag
TT.MM.JJ      1           Beratung auch telefonisch          1         2,3        10,72 €
                      375       Schutzimpfung                           1         2,3        10,72 € 
                      -            Corona-Hygiene-Pauschale       1                      6,41 €

 

TT.MM.JJ      1           Beratung auch telefonisch          1         2,3        10,72 €
                      375       Schutzimpfung                           1         2,3        10,72 € 
                      -            Corona-Hygiene-Pauschale       1                      6,41 €

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                davon ärztliche Leistungen: 42,88 €
                                                               davon Sach-/Materialkosten: 12,82 €
                                                                                     Gesamtbetrag: 55,70 €

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You can have the Ärztekammer Hamburg check the bill: https://www.aerztekammer-hamburg.org/beschwerden_patienten.html


Do you have questions about an invoice from your doctor?

For you as a private patient, or if you have used self-pay services, it is possible to have the invoice of your doctor from the Hamburg chamber area checked via the fee schedule department of the Hamburg Medical Association.

Your request must be made in writing.

Please also provide your telephone number for queries.

Checking the fees regularly requires the inspection of the treatment records. Therefore, please sign and return the following declaration of release from confidentiality with your case.

If a relative or another person is also handling correspondence on your behalf, please also complete and return the form below (also applies to spouses).


Important: The declarations must be signed.
 

For the review, you must submit the respective invoice and state in writing which services or invoice numbers are objected to. In addition, the following documents, if available, should be sent for review.

  • Written description of the facts to be clarified, including the name of the attending physician.
  • Information on the insurance status (privately insured, civil servant with private insurance or publicly insured but you used private services or individual health services)
  • Copy of the bill
  • Signed treatment contract/fee agreement (if available)
  • Rejection letter from the insurance company (if available)
  • Correspondence with the insurance company and/or doctor and/or billing company and/or patient (if available)
  • Operation and/or discharge report and/or doctor's report (if available)

Please note that we cannot process anonymised complaints.

 
Please send the complaint to the following address:
Ärztekammer Hamburg
Abteilung Gebührenordnung für Ärzte
Weidestraße 122b
22083 Hamburg

 

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https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-again-breaks-record-for-covid19-hospitalizations-as-desantis-vows-no-shutdowns/2517606/

 

Someone on here keeps using Florida as a shining example of how no masks mandate and everything open is the way to fight Corona.

 

@Jonny,you need to read that because it is a good example of deaths are not the problem but flooding the health service is.

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Interesting news article.  Time will tell how it pans out. Also interesting that there are more hospitalizations this year than last - when nobody was vaccinated.  And I'm not saying that vaccinations aren't working,  but it's an observation that again time will tell. 

 

For us in Germany I think the run up to winter will show us the real effectiveness of the vaccines. 

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18 minutes ago, Jonny said:

 Also interesting that there are more hospitalizations this year than last - when nobody was vaccinated

He takes credit for less deaths because they´ve been concentrating on getting seniors and people in nursing home vaccinated.They havent yet got half of their population with a 1st shot yet but do have about 40% of their population with both shots.So it looks like a lot of people who are out and about in Florida are not yet vaccinated.

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Just looking at the UK data gives a pretty good overview:

 

610a2eaa3fc13_UKData.png.081c1bcd2d14b52

 

The 3 waves. The amount of cases in the 1st wave is probably way underestimated due to lack of testing at the time, but otherwise the 3 waves are clear to see in all 3 charts. The hospitalisation and deaths in the recent 3rd wave are way down compared to the 2nd wave.

 

Source

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There is a 4th wave disguised there. The winter 2nd wave was stable, when the Alpha variant picked up and created a completely different scenario, which gave the january peak in many countries.

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Well my point was basically that the 3rd (4th) wave shows vaccination has broken the link between number of cases and number of hospitalisations/deaths, even with the delta variant. Pretty good news I would say.

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16 minutes ago, theGman said:

Pretty good news I would say.

I am not so sure. The link between infections and hospitalisations/deaths would only be broken if none of those who have died or were hospitalised had received both vaccinations and I do not believe that is the case. I am still waiting to see some data on that but with such a high percentage of UK adults now fully vaccinated I regard the figures we have as alarming, whilst vaccination seems to have moderated some of the worst outcomes of covid it is clearly far from providing full immunity.

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No hospitalisations or deaths at all in the fully vaccinated is currently unrealistic. A quick google and I landed on this page.

 

Quote

Washington State Department of Health 

Data between February and June 2021:
– 97.4% of COVID-19 cases were in those not fully vaccinated
– 96% of hospitalizations among COVID-19 cases were in those not fully vaccinated
– 94.3% of deaths related to COVID-19 were in those not fully vaccinated

 

Looks pretty decent to me. Vaccination is our best weapon against this. Get everyone vaccinated, continue to work on treatments and vaccine boosters, and there is not much more we can do.

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1 hour ago, theGman said:

No hospitalisations or deaths at all in the fully vaccinated is currently unrealistic. A quick google and I landed on this page.

 

 

Looks pretty decent to me. Vaccination is our best weapon against this. Get everyone vaccinated, continue to work on treatments and vaccine boosters, and there is not much more we can do.

 

That is comparing apples with oranges or UK with the US. How unrealistic does it need to be before a return to lockdown. that is the question, 90% 60% 30% or 10%, until we know that I will not share your optimism!

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