8,875 posts in this topic

Thanks for your explanation, and yes seems reasonable

 

Let's hope supply increases or group 4 is going to take a while

 

However, given you need 3 weeks to get the best protection from the first vaccine, it going to be mid June before much is going to change in Germany as infections are still very high, it's going to take a while for the number of infections to go down

 

So the end of lock is not really in sight, soon

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Thanks for your explanation, and yes seems reasonable

 

Let's hope supply increases or group 4 is going to take a while

 

However, given you need 3 weeks to get the best protection from the first vaccine, it going to be mid June before much is going to change in Germany as infections are still very high, it's going to take a while for the number of infections to go down

 

So the end of lock is not really in sight, soon

 

It's in sight. A few months more or less are perfectly negligible in the grand scheme of things - this is by the way reflected in the stock market. Moreover, there are good reasons to to believe that the slowdown in transmissions seen last year during the hotter months will repeat itself.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, mtbiking said:

A few months more or less are perfectly negligible in the grand scheme of things

Not necessarily true if your business is bankrupt before lockdown ends.

 

On another note: I complained before about the lack of human challenge trials but now it seems some are seeing the light and started at least 2 of those:

Quote

Oxford - In order to investigate the reaction of the immune system, British scientists want to specifically re-expose young people with survived corona infection to the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

The aim is to find out what amount of virus is required for a new infection, how the immune system reacts and what this means for the development of immunity to the pathogen. A similar study has already been running in London since March, in which volunteers are specifically exposed to the virus.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

source: https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/123064/Weitere-Human-Challenge-Studie-Gezielte-Wiederansteckung-mit-SARS-CoV-2?rt=1a1ed09f31f582d6b78b41a4b07a6229

 

I can´t for the life of me understand why it took so long.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, mtbiking said:

A few months more or less are perfectly negligible in the grand scheme of things - this is by the way reflected in the stock market.

Yes because the stock market doing well helps those small businesses that have gone bust.I´m sure the owners of those small businesses constantly check how the market is doing and think well me being broke is not too bad as long as the stock market keeps doing well.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Yes because the stock market doing well helps those small businesses that have gone bust.I´m sure the owners of those small businesses constantly check how the market is doing and think well me being broke is not too bad as long as the stock market keeps doing well.

 

 

What do you want me to say? That the last 13 months have sucked for many small businesses? That's beyond dispute. Be thankful that the economic damage hasn't been much greater: 12 months ago when everything was crashing and there was no vaccine in sight it looked like it could go that way. I also don't see the alternative: we're living through a major crisis and the main goal of any decent  government needs to be to prioritize saving lives.

 

As an aside, I do have friends who are small business owners and who are also invested in the stock market as their retirement plan  and to generate a source of income and wealth separate from their business. Do you want them to go personally bankrupt as well as professionally? 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jeba said:

I can´t for the life of me understand why it took so long.

 

I believe that deliberately infecting people with a virus for which there is no reliable cure and potentially can cause long term disability and death is not something to be done without very careful consideration and control.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

I believe that deliberately infecting people with a virus for which there is no reliable cure and potentially can cause long term disability and death is not something to be done without very careful consideration and control.

True, but you have to weigh the lives of those few volunteers against the millions of lives which might have been saved from going that route earlier - no to speak of the economic consequences. Surely, they could have found volunteers in say some Chinese death rows if you offered them e.g. pardoning to lifelong house arrest in exchange.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mtbiking said:

As an aside, I do have friends who are small business owners and who are also invested in the stock market as their retirement plan  and to generate a source of income and wealth separate from their business. Do you want them to go personally bankrupt as well as professionally? 

The stock market is not the economy.The stock market doing well is not helping small businesses.

How many small business owners do not have stocks for their retirement ?

 

 

1 hour ago, mtbiking said:

What do you want me to say?

Perhaps not this...

20 hours ago, mtbiking said:

A few months more or less are perfectly negligible in the grand scheme of things - this is by the way reflected in the stock market.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jeba said:

True, but you have to weigh the lives of those few volunteers against the millions of lives which might have been saved from going that route earlier - no to speak of the economic consequences. Surely, they could have found volunteers in say some Chinese death rows if you offered them e.g. pardoning to lifelong house arrest in exchange.

For that I would have to be one of those very well paid volunteers.

 

Very, very well paid.

 

If you are gong to test something, you need a sample that is representative of the goal group.

Ill Chinese prisoners are not going to provide that. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cb6dba said:

For that I would have to be one of those very well paid volunteers.

 

Very, very well paid.

 

If you are gong to test something, you need a sample that is representative of the goal group.

Ill Chinese prisoners are not going to provide that. 

Then pay them well and or choose healthy prisoners.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, jeba said:

Then pay them well and or choose healthy prisoners.

The only ones that would be well enough to be representative would not be the people they would experiment on and would most likely have more money than we do.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

I believe that deliberately infecting people with a virus for which there is no reliable cure and potentially can cause long term disability and death

 

You forgot to add ... "but for the vast majority of people will cause mild or no symptoms"

 

And maybe for those who actually get sick, you could give them a cheap, out of patent drug like Ivermectin for instance. Then you'd be able to see if it really works the way that many doctors are claiming.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

The only ones that would be well enough to be representative would not be the people they would experiment on and would most likely have more money than we do.

 

 

In the UK GBP 5000 seem to be enough to motivate volunteers. That´s what they´re offering there. Granted, that´s for people who had already been infected and consent to being reexposed to the virus. But I´m sure it wouldn´t be a problem to find volunteers who haven´t had exposure if you increase the reward sufficiently.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Jonny said:

 

You forgot to add ... "but for the vast majority of people will cause mild or no symptoms"

 

And maybe for those who actually get sick, you could give them a cheap, out of patent drug like Ivermectin for instance. Then you'd be able to see if it really works the way that many doctors are claiming.

 

Plenty of people are taking ivermectin in third world countries, including a few of my friends back there.  The outcome, if you do not die then "Ivermectin worked flawlessly" and if you die then "This must be one of the rare cases where ivermectin didn't work because so far it has worked in so many people".

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jeba said:

Surely, they could have found volunteers in say some Chinese death rows if you offered them e.g. pardoning to lifelong house arrest in exchange.

Or perhaps some of their Moslem people who are happily being re-educated at the moment. Using prisoners or detained people for medical experimentation raises all sorts of moral issues, not to mention memories of Nazi concentration camps!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jeba said:

In the UK GBP 5000 seem to be enough to motivate volunteers. That´s what they´re offering there. Granted, that´s for people who had already been infected and consent to being reexposed to the virus. But I´m sure it wouldn´t be a problem to find volunteers who haven´t had exposure if you increase the reward sufficiently.

 Deliberately infecting people with a potentially fatal virus has serious ethical questions hanging over it, especially if you are paying them (they are desperate and need the money presumably). There would be slightly fewer ethical questions hanging over such a study where the participants volunteered without payment. But still very questionable stuff. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Silly rumors abounding at our workplace that people who had first jab AZ may even need to reorganize and get another two jabs, so reapply for the whole process again.

 

anyone heard or read anything about this? Has to be BS 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

Silly rumors abounding at our workplace that people who had first jab AZ may even need to reorganize and get another two jabs, so reapply for the whole process again.

 

anyone heard or read anything about this? Has to be BS 

 

Tomorrow I'm seeing the doctor who arranged our AZ first vaccinations last week.  I doubt this is what she's going to tell me. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now