8,975 posts in this topic

35 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

You seem to be the one playing politics, still searching for anything negative on the AstraZeneca vaccine and the British rollout!

 

Why were the (admittedly very rare) complications and deaths reported in multiple European countries - even leading many of them to stop injecting the AZ vaccine - while nothing of the sort was reported in the UK, despite their much higher vaccination rate with the AZ vaccine? Does British exceptionalism make Brits immune to blood clotting? Or is it the fabulous British weather?

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

 

Why were complications and deaths reported in multiple European countries - even leading many of them to stop injecting the AZ vaccine - while nothing of the sort was reported in the UK, despite their much higher vaccination rate with the AZ virus? Does British exceptionalism make Brits immune to blood clotting? Or is it the fabulous British weather?

This has been discussed in many posts before, please try and keep up.

The UK rollout of all vaccines has been from the oldest down so they had very few under 60s vaccinated and even those had a mix of both available types. Whereas the EU decided initially to use the AstraZeneca  vaccine only on under 60s which meant they gave a high percentage of it to age groups at the highest risk of suffering the side effects. As it turned out the highest risk is for the youngest group 18-30s*!

 

* Based on the likely number of fatalities from side effects compared to fatalities from Covid.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have to accept that we are all guinea pigs in this. 

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonny said:

It's not just the AZ vaccine

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blood-clots-as-prevalent-with-pfizer-and-moderna-vaccine-as-with-astrazenecas-report-2021-04-15

 

I guess that's what happens when you don't have time to fully test medicines because they have to get out there quick.

Sorry, that's bullshit. You can test all you want, in the end you would have a vaccine that has rare side effects.

First, because perfect medicine does not exist.

Second, because this is so rare that you only notice after tens of millions of innoculations, meaning no test would detect it.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, El Jeffo said:

 

Why were the (admittedly very rare) complications and deaths reported in multiple European countries - even leading many of them to stop injecting the AZ vaccine - while nothing of the sort was reported in the UK, despite their much higher vaccination rate with the AZ vaccine? Does British exceptionalism make Brits immune to blood clotting? Or is it the fabulous British weather?

English cuisine. If you can survive it, no vaccine will kill you!

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

English cuisine. If you can survive it, no vaccine will kill you!


Either that or the women 😂

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AZ do enough of their own bad publicity without any help from me to be honest. I remember @engelchen suggested to me I might be placing too much faith in the UK authorities when I predicted that if they knew anything about it, it would be swiftly reported and acted upon. I think engelchen was right though...Something is not right here. The MHRA appears to have at least sat for a while on the data. 

 

Keith, you live here. You know we had no large quantities of AZ rolling in. The decision to redirect AZ at older people was the right one, given the limited quantities of the stuff they actually deliver. IF we had loads of AZ and a dearth of Biontech, then your point would actually likely stand. There would be an argument to be made for risking it because even 50 year olds have a higher risk of death from Covid than the CSVT, but we don't have enough AZ to have to make that call yet. We can give the limited quantities to the over 60s for now. If Covid risk of death remains higher than risk of contraction and death for under 60s when we have vaccinated all over 60s then the advice can be changed and the vaccine can be offered to over 50s. 

 

It's something that can and should change as the risk profile changes. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Keith, you live here. You know we had no large quantities of AZ rolling in. The decision to redirect AZ at older people was the right one, given the limited quantities of the stuff they actually deliver.

 

But that is not what the Germany and several other EU countries did or have you forgotten that despite claiming to  have little or no AZ vaccine it was NOT given to the over 65s, what they had was given to health workers and teachers in the lower age groups! it is only in the last few days that they now seem to be able to give AZ to the older age groups and they appear to have plenty of it, so not sure why you think it is still in short supply.

Sorry but it seems to me  your judgement is clouded by your willingness to believe everything negative regarding the AZ vaccine and the UK and nothing positive, albeit you may well be correct in any suspicions you may have about the Tory government.;)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reminder of the timeline (why do I get a sense of deja vu doing this):

-AZ provided insufficient data to decide if the vaccine was safe for use in older people. They didn't give it to enough older people in their (much criticised) trials

-Most European countries said they would await further data before declaring AZ safe for use in older people

-Germany decided to allow it in under 65s only

-The UK meanwhile had decided to just risk it anyway and from their data we could see that it was safe for over 65s

-Germany then allowed it for over 65s

-Shortly after a number of countries discovered rare but disturbing clotting in younger people

-Vaccinations with AZ were paused by several countries pending investigations

-Vaccine was allowed again but only for over 60s as the data suggested the clotting mostly affected younger people

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all my friends in the UK are about to spend a weekend in the pub. 
 

tell me, murphaph, who got it right w/r innoculation policy?! 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn’t Merkel have the AZ jab today? Just wondering how that will influence the politicking over which jab is better than others? And for which age groups?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

all my friends in the UK are about to spend a weekend in the pub. 

 

Don't you mean outside the pubs or are they now allowed inside? The vast majority of pubs in London don't have outdoor seating capacity. I saw that yesterday but then things change swiftly.

 

I saw a report on CNN about Brazil a while ago. They said that 50% of people on ventilators are in their 40's. Lovely variants they are producing there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Reminder of the timeline (why do I get a sense of deja vu doing this):

 

Then based on your timeline we are in agreement that Germany and several other European countries made a very serious mistake in not initially using the AZ vaccine for over 65s but used it almost exclusively on under 60s  despite the EU saying it was safe for all age groups. Then adopted a  stop and go policy in respect to its use when they could have proceeded full steam ahead with a single jab then a 12 weeks to 2nd jab as per the UK , then delayed that decision and the rollout further with little or no due scientific cause!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My good friend in Uruguay (51, no preconditions) received his second Chinese vaccination today. His mother and MIL receive their second jab of Pfizer this month. The country was really doing well until the Brazilian mutation came to the border and spread from there rapidly. They have no lockdown, because they can't afford to. Only children do home schooling. The 7-day incidence is above 1300. Ridiculously high. The president talks about "responsible freedom". At least the vaccination rate is really good. It has less than 4 million inhabitants.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, john g. said:

Didn’t Merkel have the AZ jab today? Just wondering how that will influence the politicking over which jab is better than others? And for which age groups?

 

Since they are saying that AZ is safe for 60+ and she is 60+ that makes perfect sense.  If she had been given something else, you could expect the public and / or media to question if AZ is really safe for that age group.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now