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11 hours ago, RajeshG said:

In this back and forth between Biontech and AZ, where is Moderna? Why are we not hearing a peep about it? Is it being given , not given , the current quantities in germany, etc.

The only explanation i can think of is that it is the costliest of the lot and so the governments are avoiding it

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/belgian-minister-accidentally-tweets-eus-covid-vaccine-price-list

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I see Thuringia has suspended all AZ vaccinations and Berlin all people under 60. It seems the Bund und Länder are meeting right now about a (hopefully) uniform approach.

 

The PEI now reports 31 cases in Germany of so called VIPIT with 9 fatalities (I'm guessing at least some of the people who did not die have suffered life changing, stroke like injuries however).

 

 

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10 hours ago, Keleth said:

Because it is accepted when someone says "I`m not ...but" that is exactly what they are.

Your link had absolutely no need to be prefaced by "I´m not anti vaxx but".

Why not "interesting case why we should not automatically trust businesses and scientists."

When you used what you did it makes it look like you are leaning that way.

Cancer is a pretty universal diagnosis.The only differing opinions she had about treatment was from FB freaks suggesting crystals,water,cannabis oil etc but medically no.

Nope but I would not use anti vaxx anywhere in that statement.

Yes but did you actually read any other of the many articles about it explaining what happened and how many scientists and medical agencies outside of France repeatedly raised concerns about it and tried to get it taken off the market ?

Evening, Keleth! Ok, why we should not automatically trust businesses and scientists ( and politicians ) if that pleases you.


The story  from France yesterday triggered me and reminded me we just don’t know the long term effects of most things. 

And, you know, if Canada or Germany or whoever keeps changing their minds about whether the Oxford thingy is safe for over 65s, under 55s etc, how should we lay persons know where to stand?

 

Basically, what I am trying to say but likely not expressing myself well is: I have had all the relevant vaccinations in my life ( same as our pets!) and this will continue. I am just ( naturally?) cautious about what is brand new against this shitty virus.


I will have the Covid jab at some stage. Any expert unbiased recommendation which one?😂


And cancer- the diagnosis may be universal but there are plenty of pros and cons re post- cancer recovery programs. Let us just say-some personal experience.

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Stiko has now recommended that AZ only be administered to over 60s here.

 

So far 31 cases of unexplained brain clots shortly after vaccination with AZ. 9 fatal.

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24 minutes ago, john g. said:

Evening, Keleth! Ok, why we should not automatically trust businesses and scientists ( and politicians ) if that pleases you.


The story  from France yesterday triggered me and reminded me we just don’t know the long term effects of most things. 

And, you know, if Canada or Germany or whoever keeps changing their minds about whether the Oxford thingy is safe for over 65s, under 55s etc, how should we lay persons know where to stand?

 

Basically, what I am trying to say but likely not expressing myself well is: I have had all the relevant vaccinations in my life ( same as our pets!) and this will continue. I am just ( naturally?) cautious about what is brand new against this shitty virus.


I will have the Covid jab at some stage. Any expert unbiased recommendation which one?😂


And cancer- the diagnosis may be universal but there are plenty of pros and cons re post- cancer recovery programs. Let us just say-some personal experience.

I agree 100%. I personally have gotten all vaccines as well. But something about this makes me real nervous. My academic brain tell me nah it is a real low risk of clots so I should go for it and the risk of long term complications from covid itself are higher. But my emotional non-rational side is scared shitless. Sadly because these vaccines have just not been out long and there is so many unknowns, it must suck to be in charge of any health authority right now. I did schedule an appointment though although I am guessing it may get cancelled. I am under 30 and female. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Krieg said:

From tomorrow on only FFP2 masks are allowed in Berlin.

Where? In the streets? Shops? Public transport?

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2 hours ago, murphaph said:

Stiko has now recommended that AZ only be administered to over 60s here.

 

So far 31 cases of unexplained brain clots shortly after vaccination with AZ. 9 fatal.

This is sick. The government in Germany really thinks that doing nothing saves from responsibility for people's deaths as opposed to doing something necessary. So typical of Germany's foreign policy, too.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, john g. said:

Where? In the streets? Shops? Public transport?

 

wherever masks are currently required.  Shops, public transport, personal services (hairdresser/masseuse) and selected high streets.

 

Two said streets are in my immediate vicinity and I have to cross one or both of them to do almost anything.  It's funny to walk up to the street, pop on your mask, cross the street, take it off again for two blocks, then put it back on again :lol: I usually just keep it on or am a bit of a rogue on the bike and breeze through those intersections and put on the mask before locking up the bike.  I wrote here already about once waiting just around the corner so I wouldn't have to put on my mask yet and the second I put a toe over the line the cops came and warned us!  

 

So far they're not required for just walking around outside (apart from select streets with high foot traffic).

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The simple comparison Julian Röpcke makes above is highly misleading. The dead from Covid are overwhelmingly older people. The German authorities are still recommending that older people take the AZ vaccine if offered it.

 

I believe in Norway as a young healthy person they have calculated that you actually have a higher chance of dying from the AZ vaccination than from the disease. 

 

The Canadian press release mentions risk calculations in different age groups leading them to the conclusion that suspending vaccinations with AZ in younger people was the correct course of action.

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1 hour ago, dessa_dangerous said:

am a bit of a rogue on the bike and breeze through those intersections and put on the mask before locking up the bike.

 

Bicyclists are not required to wear masks on said streets (when cycling) but you do indeed need to put one on as soon as you get off...

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7 hours ago, murphaph said:

The simple comparison Julian Röpcke makes above is highly misleading. The dead from Covid are overwhelmingly older people. The German authorities are still recommending that older people take the AZ vaccine if offered it.

It's also assuming AZ is the only vaccine in town. The comparison shouldn't be the risk of the AZ vaccine vs. not being vaccinated at all but the risk of having AZ now vs. waiting a bit longer for another vaccine.

 

 

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I agree with Murphaph, the Julian Röpcke comparison is not really valid. Covid is not a choice, the AZ jab is. If there were no other alternatives, then sure, it's a no brainer, but there are alternatives. It would mean we will all have to wait longer but AZ can in principle be avoided. 9 out of 2.7million is a horrifically small number, but how many of those 2.7million are in the AZ risk group (female under 55?)? Not many I guess.

I personally still "feel" that for now the AZ risk is "acceptable". Everything we do in life has small risks...driving, swimming, drinking, other vaccines? I can't help but feel that, in a way, the public is being fed too much information about this, without the ability to process what these numbers mean in the context of normal life. Anyhow, seems AZ in Germany is dying now. Hopefully delivery of the other vaccines starts ramping up very soon and in the meantime AZ can just be offered to those who want it.

Also, do the other vaccines really have no indications of similar risks?

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The wife gets her impfung today.She is getting the AZ.

Her outlook is that cancer took away too much of her life,Corona lockdown etc has deprived her of another year of normality so fuck it.

I`m in 2 minds about it but you can see she`s nervous about it but also happy that she is at last getting vaccinated.

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Nightmare. So my wife and I have had the AZ first jab as this was the only one offered to teachers and we acted on the advice at the time (plus wanted protection from COVID in school ASAP)

 

Hopefully we can get a doctors slip saying we can get our second in mid may. meanwhile our colleagues are now getting Biontech with only a 3 or 6 week gap between jabs.

 

 

What a total mess.

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14 hours ago, murphaph said:

Stiko has now recommended that AZ only be administered to over 60s here.

 

So far 31 cases of unexplained brain clots shortly after vaccination with AZ. 9 fatal.

 

I was reading an opinion piece yesterday that said certain types of birth control pill raise the risk of blood clots, and the author was surprised that it did not seem that anyone was looking in to a possible contraindication between "the pill" and the AV vaccine. 

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looks like they (obviously) know that AZ 2nd doses will commence in may, so they will announce their decision end April.

 

It is looking (early days I know) like we will be able to choose, between AZ with doctors note or another (EU approved)

 

This is, IF AZ reapproved or with new advice / health warnings, whatever

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