9,374 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, yesterday said:

They are 2 separate contract

It's not normally to show all contracts with all parties

 

The UK  had it in there contract that they have priority the EU did mot

 

I only ask you follow the law, is that too much to expect from the eu

Of course, they are two different contracts. If there is a conflict between them you can´t pick and choose which one you want to honour. If I e.g. sold you a car I couldn´t deny delivery to you just because the following day somebody offered me a better deal and I promised to the new buyer to renege on the deal with you and rather sell it to them.

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On 3/20/2021, 10:42:11, murphaph said:

The UK gamble

 

On 3/21/2021, 8:07:07, Mackle said:

Gamble is right, I think it is by luck rather than judgement

 

It wasn't a gamble, it was an educated decision. They interviewed some expert on an Horizon documentary a couple of months ago about it. Something about extending the time between the first and second dose allows for "better quality" antibodies to develop.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

Our company, like other big companies, seem to be dealing with the government to get us vaccinating before and jumping the queue.   It seems that they allow it if the company deals with the logistics and provides the medical team to do it.  This is in Berlin.  We might get vaccinated around May with J&J if we accept it.

 

My company informed us of the same this morning, said they are working on it and will let us know...

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24 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

I would say that 126K+  and still rising deaths in the UK gives a lot of justification. What would you suggest is "morally correct", sharing the vaccines out evenly or treating the sickest  "patient" first???

As you can't predict outbreaks, the simplest and morally correct way is a distribution per million of people.

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6 minutes ago, jeba said:

Of course, they are two different contracts. If there is a conflict between them you can´t pick and choose which one you want to honour. If I e.g. sold you a car I couldn´t deny delivery to you just because the following day somebody offered me a better deal and I promised to the new buyer to renege on the deal with you and rather sell it to them.

The  EU contract says a has to make best effort, which as did it's the production facility that broke down

The UK contract says the gets priority on vaccine numbers

 

 

 

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Just now, MikeMelga said:

As you can't predict outbreaks, the simplest and morally correct way is a distribution per million of people.

The UK is not in the EU anymore, it just goes by the signed contracts

 

They say the UK has priority

Just now, MikeMelga said:
9 minutes ago, jeba said:

Of course, they are two different contracts. If there is a conflict between them you can´t pick and choose which one you want to honour. If I e.g. sold you a car I couldn´t deny delivery to you just because the following day somebody offered me a better deal and I promised to the new buyer to renege on the deal with you and rather sell it to them.

The  EU contract says a has to make best effort, which as did it's the production facility that broke down

The UK contract says the gets priority on vaccine numbers

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, yesterday said:

The  EU contract says a has to make best effort, which as did it's the production facility that broke down

The UK contract says the gets priority on vaccine numbers

Ok, let's filter the bullshit.

First, EU asks to make best effort because being an experimental drug, it's a standard practice, so it gives some wiggling room for the manufacturer not to meet all deadlines. Alternatively would be much worse deadlines from start. Or not even a deal.

Second then UK comes in and says they get priority over the "best efforts"! That throws away any chance of "best efforts" immediately!

 

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Just now, MikeMelga said:

Ok, let's filter the bullshit.

First, EU asks to make best effort because being an experimental drug, it's a standard practice, so it gives some wiggling room for the manufacturer not to meet all deadlines. Alternatively would be much worse deadlines from start. Or not even a deal.

Second then UK comes in and says they get priority over the "best efforts"! That throws away any chance of "best efforts" immediately!

 

At the time it was signed, a had no idea production problems would come, they fully expected to deliver on their promise

 

But things changed, low production and did what was in the contracts

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4 minutes ago, yesterday said:

At the time it was signed, a had no idea production problems would come, they fully expected to deliver on their promise

 

But things changed, low production and did what was in the contracts

Forget the production problems, the second contract should not have been accepted by AZ without proper clauses!

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35 minutes ago, yesterday said:

The UK contract says the gets priority on vaccine numbers

Why would the contract between AZ and the UK have any legal bearing on the EU? As long as the EU wasn´t party to it it doesn´t. Just as if you´re indebted with 2 different banks and you fail to pay back the bank which is first to send the bailiff is lucky and the other one is holding the bag. Replace "sending the bailiff" by "banning exports" and you get what I´m trying to say.

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40 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

As you can't predict outbreaks, the simplest and morally correct way is a distribution per million of people.

Do you really think that say Norway and Finland both with less than 1000 deaths and an extremely low death rate per million population should have the same priority as the UK, Belgium and the Czech Republic?

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14 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Do you really think that say Norway and Finland both with less than 1000 deaths and an extremely low death rate per million population should have the same priority as the UK, Belgium and the Czech Republic?

 

Do you really think that punishing the ones who did their homework is the way?

 

Anyway, it is cute to see the first world countries taking MOST of the vaccines for themselves and discussing what is fair, while the rest of the world get crumbs.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

As you can't predict outbreaks, the simplest and morally correct way is a distribution per million of people.


You mean worldwide, I assume? The EU better start doling out a massive share of its current doses to Africa, Asia and Latin America then. Otherwise, the EU is acting indefensibly immoral and horrifically selfish .

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19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Do you really think that punishing the ones who did their homework is the way?

 

What do you mean "homework" the UK signing up early (and paying the price) for priority vaccine contracts or Norway, Finland and other countries worldwide doing such a good job of limiting infection rates which has nothing to do having the advantage of few large cities  and a very low population density?

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14 minutes ago, Fritsen said:


You mean worldwide, I assume? The EU better start doling out a massive share of its current doses to Africa, Asia and Latin America then. Otherwise, the EU is acting indefensibly immoral and horrifically selfish .

 

Ironically enough, Africa and South America are getting mostly Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines, because the west abandoned them.   The few Pfizer/Moderna/AZ they get are mostly through the COVAX program, but very little countries are part of it.   Meanwhile our sheltered friends here discuss what "fair" is.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Forget the production problems, the second contract should not have been accepted by AZ without proper clauses!

Although not nice, the did nothing illegal 

Az only has to make best endevers,  which does not mean anything

 

 

All of this does not matter, even if the eu got all the uk vaccine it would be enough to vaccination 450 million in the EU, it would be a very small amouny

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Ironically enough, Africa and South America are getting mostly Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines, because the west abandoned them.   The few Pfizer/Moderna/AZ they get are mostly through the COVAX program, but very little countries are part of it.   Meanwhile our sheltered friends here discuss what "fair" is.

 

Are you completely blind to the fact that is North America and Europe that are suffering so badly from Covid? Charity begins at home!

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1 minute ago, keith2011 said:

 

Are you completely blind to the fact that is North America and Europe that are suffering so badly from Covid? Charity begins at home!

 

WHAT?  Are you serious?   hahahahahahahaha what a bunch of nonsense.

 

Do you know about a country called Brazil?   Do you believe the statistics can be trusted?  Do you think they do the same amount of testing in the third world compared to US and Europe?   And which economy do you think is more badly affected?   The first world economy or the third world economy?   I haven't heard of people dying of hunger in Germany lately.

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21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Ironically enough, Africa and South America are getting mostly Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines, because the west abandoned them.   The few Pfizer/Moderna/AZ they get are mostly through the COVAX program, but very little countries are part of it.   Meanwhile our sheltered friends here discuss what "fair" is.

Pfizer and Moderna are too expensive for 3rd world countries. And AZ has shown extremely low efficacy for SA mutation.

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2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Pfizer and Moderna are too expensive for 3rd world countries. And AZ has shown extremely low efficacy for SA mutation.

 

 

I don't think cost of the vaccine is the problem, at least not for South America.  I have no idea about Africa though.

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