9,374 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

EMA just rescued Europe’s summer 

That's the issue. Germany and northern countries don't give a shit about saving the summer. But it fucks up all med countries.

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16 hours ago, yesterday said:

Any action the EU takes, needs to be based on solid facts, not idol talk.

 

Everybody is speculating why the EU has not enough vaccine, but nobody really seems to know why from official sources.

 

I know it's shit that we have very little vaccine in eu, but if the EU takes action without good solid reasons and facts, then the EU will look like dicks_ again when the truth comes out, and actions were based on wrong thinking. 

 

 

I agree, that is what I was hinting at with my earlier reply. Quit the rhetoric, if there is substance then it's time to swing the legal hammer. If there is no real substance to the allegations (and I suspect there is not), then the whinging and blaming needs to stop. Same as what we say to brexiteers right now.

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There was definitely something kept from us. This could have been a pressure on AZ to deliver, threatning to cut off all contracts. Not sure what it was, because it was not at the same time, it was one country at a time and then all rushed on Monday.

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I think there's a lot of scapegoating being done by EU governments for their own failure to organise or ramp up a roll-out in the manner of countries like the US, UK or Israel.

It was inevitable that there would be a rush on vaccines produced given all countries in the world want it. Some countries approved some vaccines faster than the EU (don't forget the AZ vaccine was only approved 6 weeks ago). There may have been some calculated or even blind risk taking in those decision, but nevertheless it happened. If you are a producer of a vaccine, and one client says, "yes, I'll take some now", and another client says, "yes, I'll take some as soon as it is approved", then you'd be mad not to deal with the first client first. 

 

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FWIW, I just saw this article. It caught my eye because we both take baby aspirin (81mg) daily -

 

 

Quote

 

Low-dose aspirin may help avoid COVID's worst outcomes

A new study is adding to the growing body of evidence that low-dose aspirin helps lessen the harsher effects of contracting the coronavirus.

The study, conducted by George Washington University researchers and published in the journal Anesthesia and Analgesia, examined the records of 412 patients admitted to U.S. hospitals with COVID-19 from March to July of last year.

Of those, nearly 24% had taken aspirin seven days or less before of hospital admission or within 24 hours after admission. More than 40% of those patients had improved results in key areas compared to patients who did not take the cheap, widely available drug.

"Aspirin may have lung-protective effects and reduce the need for mechanical ventilation, ICU admission, and in-hospital mortality in hospitalized COVID-19 patients,'' the report concluded.

The researchers warned that a randomized controlled trial would be needed to establish a causal relationship, but a study conducted around the same time last year in Israel also found a link between taking so-called baby aspirin and better COVID-19 outcomes.

 

 

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1 hour ago, theGman said:

 

I agree, that is what I was hinting at with my earlier reply. Quit the rhetoric, if there is substance then it's time to swing the legal hammer. If there is no real substance to the allegations (and I suspect there is not), then the whinging and blaming needs to stop. Same as what we say to brexiteers right now.

 

57 minutes ago, dstanners said:

I think there's a lot of scapegoating being done by EU governments for their own failure to organise or ramp up a roll-out in the manner of countries like the US, UK or Israel.

It was inevitable that there would be a rush on vaccines produced given all countries in the world want it. Some countries approved some vaccines faster than the EU (don't forget the AZ vaccine was only approved 6 weeks ago). There may have been some calculated or even blind risk taking in those decision, but nevertheless it happened. If you are a producer of a vaccine, and one client says, "yes, I'll take some now", and another client says, "yes, I'll take some as soon as it is approved", then you'd be mad not to deal with the first client first. 

 

 

This looks like an EU funk up to me, and then they are mud sling to try and hide the EU incompetence

 

Even if the UK had given all the vaccine doses, to the eu, let's says 30 million doses - when the EU used ed it across 400 million people it would not go very far. We should remember the EU needs about 800 million doses to vaccinate it's population, I do not think the EU has ordered the bare minimum so far. The UK has ordered so much it can vaccinate it's population  twice over. So supply problems do not hit the UK that much

 

The eu, did not build up its production facilties last year the UK did

 

The EU just said the free market will supply enough, and then did not order enough, so private companies did not build enough production facilities. The EU then just blame everybody else for not organising it's own production

 

It's a very sad situation,  it's obvious the people would want the vaccine in large numbers once it was cleared for use, but the EU has not prepared for it, why do not have large scale production in the EU ?, because it did not occur to the EU that everybody would want it, and did not see that every country will get as much of it as possible for their own  population.  The EU should have built up production in the eu, last year.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I do not think the EU has ordered the bare minimum so far

 

EU has ordered 2.3 billion. 

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1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

 

EU has ordered 2.3 billion. 

Thanks for the info

 

On which time scale should that be delivered ?

 

Is that going to be produced in the eu, so the eu can stop it being exported ?

 

All info much appreciated 

 

Had a quick look 

2.3 billion will not until at least end 2021, a bit late when you consider the damage to the economy at the moment

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-vaccines-idUSKCN2AV0H6

 

That report is full of bollocks, 100 million doses by end march, humm, does not look like to me

 

 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Low-dose aspirin may help avoid COVID's worst outcomes

 

I have always been a great believer in aspirin and its not just covid, in addition as per the old saying goes it "cures coughs, colds, scabby holes and pimples on the bum".:D

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I kind of give up. The EU Commission is NOT a national government. It cannot possibly act off its own bat in the way a government can. It was ALWAYS going to be slower to agree deals because it had to go back and clear things with 27 national governments. Now, this means that for countries that could have simply pulled the trigger and ordered millions of doses at whatever price, this means we have to wait a bit longer. But it means that the majority of the member states will get vaccine faster than had they been bidding against each other and us here in Germany. Either we have a European Union or we don't basically. If each country had done a solo run I think it could have ripped the EU apart. Look what it's doing to EU-UK and to a lesser extend EU-US relations.

 

The Commission surely made mistakes. However, when the Commission (IMV rightly) asks AZ where all the missing doses are, it's absolutely right to do that. It doesn't mean the Commission is trying to blame ALL the Commission's failures on AZ. That would be ridiculous. The Commission has already accepted that things could have been done better. AZ and their failure to deliver anywhere near the promised amount remains a serious problem however. 

 

The Commission would be letting us all down here if it did not continue to pressure AZ to deliver what was promised. I would not rule out legal action against AZ later on for a breach of contract either, but that doesn't help the situation right now so more direct means are required.

 

Personally I trust the UK government very little any more. Two breaches of international law so far in regards to the Northern Ireland Protocol has done nothing for their reputation. I personally believe that a deal was done (unwritten) that AZ would prefer the UK over any other country when it came to the output of their UK plants, which were also listed in the EU contract. I would have had no problem with that state of affairs had this been known about and communicated to the EU so it could have looked elsewhere and not bothered with the AZ negotiations. On another forum I read a chap said the UK had effectively run into the vaccine supermarket and bought all the vaccine bog roll first thing in the morning, leaving none for those later in the day, and then declared his vaccine bog roll buying spree a tremendous success. It's not a million miles from reality and nobody likes a bog roll hoarder.

 

Just to put things in perspective though, here in the EU we're only doing badly compared to a handful of countries and in terms of "fully vaccinated" (ie two shots given where required) in Germany at least we are ahead of even the UK and US. Compared to the vast majority of the world we are doing well and the rate of vaccinations per day will increase as new channels come on stream.

 

I bet the EU is better prepared for the next pandemic, with a a playlist ready to go.

 

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6 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There was definitely something kept from us. This could have been a pressure on AZ to deliver, threatning to cut off all contracts. Not sure what it was, because it was not at the same time, it was one country at a time and then all rushed on Monday.

It was one country at a time because the initially worrying incidents "only" came from little Norway and Denmark, which suspended on the Thursday and Friday I believe. Then several smaller countries like Ireland saw the Norwegian figures on the Saturday evening and suspended on the Sunday and then Germany I suppose had a closer look at its cases and realised it had 9 on the Monday and suspended then (this was actually done in concert with the remaining larger countries, who were given a heads up by Germany that it was going to suspend). When they saw the German numbers they all agreed to suspend as well, pending an EMA investigation. 

 

I see nothing untoward.

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17 minutes ago, murphaph said:

in Germany at least we are ahead of even the UK and US

 

What percentage of Germans have had both shots again?

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3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

I have always been a great believer in aspirin and its not just covid, in addition as per the old saying goes it "cures coughs, colds, scabby holes and pimples on the bum".:D


i would have thought taking any medication on a daily basis, unless absolutely required, ie subscribed, is probably not a great idea

 

(kidneys, stomach lining, etc)

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Our aspirin is prescribed and we both have regular check ups, blood work, etc. to make sure our kidneys, livers, etc. are coping well, thank you.

 

It's only 81 mg. FFS.

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Just to put things in perspective though, here in the EU we're only doing badly compared to a handful of countries and in terms of "fully vaccinated" (ie two shots given where required) in Germany at least we are ahead of even the UK and US. Compared to the vast majority of the world we are doing well and the rate of vaccinations per day will increase as new channels come on stream

 

 

Cambridge University's Sir David Speigehalter has been saying that the affect on community spread is exponentially greater when you prioritise getting the widest possible number of first doses. So whilst personal protection is going to be better with two doses, for now at least the mass first dose rollout seems to be having a dramatic effect on cases as a whole at this moment in the outbreak.

 

As said on another thread, if this does prove to be the right approach for overall spread, it seems more luck than judgement on the part of the UK. 

 

I also note it being reported now that apparently the UK has been exporting AV to Canada and Mexico?

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