9,374 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

They've done better: they compared it to normal thrombosis occurence rate.

 

No, sorry, that is not better. Just easy. They need to compare like with like.

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well, what do we know?  1 in a million (or so) people who were vaccinated got blood clots, 1 in a million (or so) people got brain hemorrhage. 1 in a million (maybe) got a severe allergic reaction....  and 1000 (or way more) in a million people who were infected with COVID-19 died a horrible, painful death. 

 

Which risk would you personally prefer to take?

 

btw - your risk of having a (potentially deadly) blood clot is higher than 1 in a million if you are female and take birth control pills, or if you are a chain smoker, or if you travel intercontinental on a plane, or if you broke a bone, or if you undergo cancer treatment, or if you are pregnant, or if you had a heart attack, or if you are obese....

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Personally my biggest concern is, why have several of these blood clotting incidents not been reported in the UK? They should have surely seen these things too, given the far higher number of doses administered, but seemingly they have not, that strikes me as odd if these sort of events should be expected at these sorts of incidence rates in the general population. I have no reason to suspect that the UK has concealed these events. I genuinely believe that they haven't experienced them. Their vaccine, it should be noted, comes from a different place than ours, despite being nominally the same.

 

I strongly disagree that this is (entirely) political. In the case of Ireland I am sure of it. The government has received (as expected) a lot of flak over this suspension.

 

A little bit of caution is required.

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I'm sure this will go back to the vaccination plan, the question is how many days or weeks it will take.

The alternative would be some magic announcement that Pfizer and Moderna suddenly increased the number of available vaccines.

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Haven´t those deaths due to clotting occurred in one batch only? I´d also like to know whether men were affected as well or whether it´s only women of childbearing age who are more at risk even without vaccine.

 

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Ah, the Sunday sport.

half naked women and funny stories. over the year this has gone to their being a London bus frozen in the artic and a welligton bomber on the moon...

 

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

Haven´t those deaths due to clotting occurred in one batch only? I´d also like to know whether men were affected as well or whether it´s only women of childbearing age who are more at risk even without vaccine.

 

 

In Austria they stopped a batch called ABV5300 due to possible risk of blood clots but the cases in Norway are not related to this batch because they did not get their vaccine from it.  According to https://www.nrk.no/norge/all-bruk-av-astrazeneca-vaksinen-settes-pa-vent-i-norge-1.15412462 the batch suspected in Austria was imported to 17 countries not including Norway.

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2 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

btw - your risk of having a (potentially deadly) blood clot is higher than 1 in a million if you are female and take birth control pills

The comparison with the pill is something we should be wary of it seems (I guess we are all learning as we go along, myself included):

 

Quote

Experten raten beim Vergleich von vermeintlichen Nebenwirkungen der Astrazeneca-Impfung mit der Antibabypille zu Vorsicht.

Der Mediziner und Gesundheitsökonom Karl Lauterbach sagte im Deutschlandfunk, dies sei kein guter Vergleich. Es handele sich tatsächlich um ein anderes Risiko. Die Thrombosen, die es nach Einnahme der Pille gebe, seien in der Schwere nicht vergleichbar mit den Thrombosen, die in einigen Fällen nach Impfungen beobachtet wurden, führte der SPD-Politiker aus.

https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/astrazeneca-debatte-mediziner-warnen-bei-thrombose-risiko.2850.de.html?drn:news_id=1238324

 

Basically there are blood clots and there are blood clots. One in your brain is more dangerous than one in your finger, sort of thing. I am a lay person but I can understand that there are different kinds of blood clots. The 7 cases in Germany that they appear to be concerned about are in the brain and are very rare in the normal populace, rarer than in the cohort that has received the AZ vaccine, so there are grounds to investigate.

 

I also read today that the government here (legally) had little option but to pause the vaccinations with AZ once it had received the recommendation from the PEI to do so.

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14 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

In Austria they stopped a batch called ABV5300 due to possible risk of blood clots 

That's even stronger than Special Brew lol!

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4 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I'm sure this will go back to the vaccination plan, the question is how many days or weeks it will take.

 

Portuguese press was reporting 2 weeks, quoting the health minister.

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Much more detail about the Norwegian cases here:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0316/1204251-coronavirus-global/

 

They have given 120k shots in Norway and have had 4 serious clotting reactions (not yet proven if the incidents were actually caused by the vaccine but they are rare conditions) all in people under 50, two of whom sadly have died. That amounts in Norway's case to a serious, potentially fatal reaction in 1 in 30,000 if it is established that the vaccine caused the reactions. Given those figures I can absolutely understand the Norwegian decision to pause their AZ vaccinations pending further investigation.

 

The 4 people all started feeling unwell about a week after receiving the shot.

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Bit like Bernard suggesting bringing in an ID card but calling it Eurocard Plus.

 

Those were the days.

 

Now it would have to be BritPlus I suppose.

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8 hours ago, murphaph said:

Personally my biggest concern is, why have several of these blood clotting incidents not been reported in the UK? They should have surely seen these things too, given the far higher number of doses administered, but seemingly they have not, that strikes me as odd if these sort of events should be expected at these sorts of incidence rates in the general population. I have no reason to suspect that the UK has concealed these events. I genuinely believe that they haven't experienced them.

 

Why are you so willing to believe that they haven't had these side effects?  Considering the misinformation, corruption, and outright lies of the government, I take anything they say with a grain of salt. Is there any type of independent reporting system that the government can't corrupt? 

 

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