8,344 posts in this topic

 

4 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Bundeswehr doctors and medics are already helping out and are somewhat overstretched.

 

Not to mention the objections by various polical parties in Berlin to receiving aide from the Bundeswehr (because the medical and support staff are planning a coup in their spare time <_< ). 

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Hmm. I may see if a non resident Brit can fly home for the vaccine.
 

Doubt it 

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Not much point traveling to the UK yet. If you are in a group that would be getting vaccinated right now, then traveling would be a crazy thing to do.

As the roll-out accelerates and more people start getting the jab, it still probably won't be worth it because

Quote

You will also need to be registered with a GP surgery in England.

I assume that the same will apply for the other 3 home nations, but I can't be arsed to check.

 

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7 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

Throughout the entire crisis Germany has stayed true to its rigid observance of Sunday as a day of rest.  If they won't even do testing and analysis over the weekend and on holidays, what makes you think they're going to start doing 24 hour a day vaccinations?  I mean--unless you've read that somewhere, then, I stand corrected.  Otherwise, I think they'll do the thing during normal business hours as they do with any- and everything else, and be as inflexible on that point as they have been throughout.  Somehow I don't really see them working around the clock, even if they had the manpower, which they obviously don't.  So, moot.

That`s exactly why I`m surprised.The govt keeps going on about they need to get this under control but they seem very inflexible.

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7 minutes ago, Keleth said:

That`s exactly why I`m surprised.The govt keeps going on about they need to get this under control but they seem very inflexible.

 

Actually, I am not surprised.

The system here works totally differently to in Britain, and has an awful lot to do with different layers of German health workers only being permitted to do certain things - basically, the big guys wanting to hold on to their "authority" by not sharing skills with other healthcare workers.

In Britain the Red Cross and St John are working full-out, training their members to give the vaccination - a friend of mine, who is a trainer with St John, is busy teaching courses every weekend, in order to have as many people available to innoculate the populatoin as possible.

Obviously, at each vaccination centre, there would also be a doctor on hand, in case of complications, but by training others than the core medical staff, it means that more people can receive their vaccination, with less interference on the central medical services.

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56 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

The system here works totally differently to in Britain, and has an awful lot to do with different layers of German health workers only being permitted to do certain things - basically, the big guys wanting to hold on to their "authority" by not sharing skills with other healthcare workers.

I doubt that the number of people able to administer the vaccine is the limiting factor. It´s probably more a problem of enough doctors being available for potential emergencies (there were more than 10000 retired physicians recruited but not every retired physician will still feel capable enough for that), to explain risks and answering questions (necessary to obtain informed consent), space to keep people distant from each other while staying around after receiving their jabs (in case there should be an allergic reaction) etc.

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11 hours ago, engelchen said:

the German vaccine needs a pharmacist to properly dilute it.

Where did you get that from? I highly doubt it. It´s completely normal for physicians to dilute meds they want to administer.

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34 minutes ago, jeba said:

I doubt that the number of people able to administer the vaccine is the limiting factor. It´s probably more a problem of enough doctors being available for potential emergencies (there were more than 10000 retired physicians recruited but not every retired physician will still feel capable enough for that), to explain risks and answering questions (necessary to obtain informed consent), space to keep people distant from each other while staying around after receiving their jabs (in case there should be an allergic reaction) etc.

 

yeah, my wife received a letter 10 days ago asking for her to volunteer to work in the vaccination campaign (she registered) and she has normally nothing to do with the topic. From the contents of the letter you’re on point. It can't obviously be full time though because of her own patients, it’s rather extra time.

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13 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

Somehow I don't really see them working around the clock, even if they had the manpower, which they obviously don't.  So, moot.

I know this is somewhat after the event, thinking, but with the benefit of hindsight, are some of the points not really easy to think about.

Was it not obvious that large numbers of people are going to want the vaccine as soon as possible ?

We have had about 9 months to plan for this 

The Government knew, at what stage the vaccines are at

Why could they not plan, for enough vaccine and trained people/facilities  to give it t the people ?

Ok,I know it looked like virus went away during the summer and maybe the government thought, they could do this slowly, but its not turned out like that.

With deaths running at 400 to 600 per day, our own Government did not plan for this and a lot of people are going to die because of this, which is very sad.

 

By the way, TT is mostly a nice place to post in again without the trolls on this thread, because I want people to disagree with me and come to a better understanding of the situation, but I do not like the endless nit picking and insults that come when the trolls are here.

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13 hours ago, engelchen said:

I don't think it is inflexible to allow personnel to get some time off to eat and sleep.

 

Neither do I.  In a perfect world, where we all had perfect prescience, there would be enough staff and resources to be prepared in all situations.  Of course, I know this is neither the case nor is it usually very realistic.

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

We have had about 9 months to plan for this 

Actually not, as it wasn´t known 9 months ago whether a safe and effective vaccine would even be available and which one it would be. What government could have done is prioritize Germany for a vaccine developed in Germany, but for reasons which are at least understandable they decided to share it with the EU and allowed (I think) 20% of production to go to the rest of the world. Biontech is in the process of building another manufactoring plant in Marburg though which they hope will start producing by the end of March. Also, according to Spahn, government ordered 130 million doses (enough for 65 million people) from Biontech and Moderna alone (which would be enough, given that not everyone wants to get vaccinated and only those aged above 17 are eligible). That´s not even counting others like Curevac or Astra-Zeneca.

I really dislike Spahn (for his order to the relevant authority to not approve applications for pentobarbital, the drug best suited for suicide, even though the highest court ruled that people have a right to end their lives if they so wish) but I think criticizing his handling of the vaccine issue is probably unfair.

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

The Government knew, at what stage the vaccines are at

Why could they not plan, for enough vaccine and trained people/facilities  to give it t the people ?

 

I think you are naively underestimating the logistics of vaccinating so many people quickly. Look at the mess your country is making and their not thought through plans of mixing and matching different vaccines, shorting doses, and lengthening the time between doses. If you'd being paying attention to the experts, you'd have realised that it is mammoth project and it can't be solved by just ramping up production and training. 

 

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

Ok,I know it looked like virus went away during the summer and maybe the government thought, they could do this slowly, but its not turned out like that.

With deaths running at 400 to 600 per day, our own Government did not plan for this and a lot of people are going to die because of this, which is very sad.

 

Many infections and thereby deaths are also being caused by individuals not feeling the need to follow the established protocols. Where the various levels of governments truly failed in Germany is in increasing the contact tracing capabilities in the summer. 

 

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

By the way, TT is mostly a nice place to post in again without the trolls on this thread, because I want people to disagree with me and come to a better understanding of the situation, but I do not like the endless nit picking and insults that come when the trolls are here.

 

Put jeba on ignore, it makes reading threads much easier and you don't lose any important content.

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1 hour ago, engelchen said:

Look at the mess your country is making and their not thought through plans of mixing and matching different vaccines,

 

That is fake news.   Please stop spreading misinformation.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55519042

 

The editor of the British Medical Journal has asked the New York Times to correct an article that says UK guidelines allow two Covid-19 vaccines to be mixed.

 

The US publication reported that UK health officials would allow patients to be given a second dose that is a different vaccine to their first.

Fiona Godlee pointed out in her letter to the NYT that it was not a recommendation.

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

Where the various levels of governments truly failed in Germany is in increasing the contact tracing capabilities in the summer. 

Are you saying that increasing contact tracing was a bad thing or is that a typo ?

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Are you saying that increasing contact tracing was a bad thing or is that a typo ?

 

Sorry, the NOT is missing. The bad thing was not increasing the capacity for contact tracing in the summer; better contact tracing in the fall would have done much to hinder the spread of the virus. Unlike training medical personnel contact tracers don't need much training and infrastructure. 

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Scotland and England in lockdown again, as the situation is worse than in March. 

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In the south of Sweden, hospitals are prepairing canteens to function as wards because of the amount of covid patients.

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Ad Infinitum! 

 

1 hour ago, Elljay said:

Scotland and England in lockdown again, as the situation is worse than in March. 

 

 

 

 

On 12/23/2020, 7:10:42, engelchen said:

You'll receive a letter when your turn is coming up, but you need to be patient. There are literally millions ahead of you on the priority list.

 

On 12/23/2020, 8:49:54, engelchen said:

There are over 8 million people in line ahead of you including everyone over 80 as well as first responders, residents in care homes and those who take care of them.

 

On 12/23/2020, 8:49:54, engelchen said:

Vaccinating them will take a month or two.

 

I asked you about your, 'month or two', allegation and you failed to reply. 

 

Wishful thinking obviously plays a part in any strategy but it remains wishful thinking. 

 

Maybe you can update your advice, @engelchen

 

9 hours ago, engelchen said:

I think you are naively underestimating the logistics of vaccinating so many people quickly. Look at the mess your country is making and their not thought through plans of mixing and matching different vaccines, shorting doses, and lengthening the time between doses. If you'd being paying attention to the experts, you'd have realised that it is mammoth project and it can't be solved by just ramping up production and training. 

 

Can you give us an updated time frame then?

 

On 1/3/2021, 8:32:55, engelchen said:

The EU decided to all start on the same day out of some weird sense of solidarity. 

 

Because the EU is an organisation that looks after itself and not its members. 

 

You don't get it though, do you! 

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