6,155 posts in this topic

On 18.10.2020, 21:35:34, jeba said:

If I was the king of the world there would have been tests in volunteers to establish the minimal dose of the virus necessary for infection (mindboggling that this hasn´t been done yet) and "vaccinate" volunteers with doses lower than that.

 

Maybe some Brits have read that. Now they want to do it:

 

Quote

London - For better research of corona infections British scientists want to infect for the first time volunteers purposefully with the virus. As scientists of the Londoner Imperial college and other mechanisms communicated today, the research program is to show, how high the virus load must be, so that humans fall ill with the lung illness Covid 19.

In this way, the program should help to stem the spread of the coronavirus, alleviate its consequences and reduce deaths. The scientists want to find volunteers between the ages of 18 and 30 years without pre-existing conditions such as heart problems, diabetes or obesity.

"In this first phase, the goal will be to determine the smallest amount of virus needed for a person to develop Covid-19," said Imperial College

deepl-translated from https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/117575/Britische-Forscher-wollen-Freiwillige-gezielt-mit-Coronavirus-anstecken?rt=1a1ed09f31f582d6b78b41a4b07a6229

 

Unbelievable that that hasn´t been done earlier.

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22 hours ago, lunaCH said:

Also he didn't say anything that we really didn't already know. We know full well the pandemic is here to stay. There will be cases for years to come with or without any vaccine. I didn't need to watch the video to realise that. :(

 

You would be surprised how many people do not realize this.   

 

I have had "well-educated" people "following the science" tell me that kids in countries with surging numbers, e.g. France and Spain, should plan to stay inside and not go to school until end of 2021.   Public playgrounds should be closed, period.   

 

If you put the numbers in perspective, it is like a bad flu season.   The reaction will cause unbelievable economic hardship which will kill a lot more people than the virus has/will.  

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9 hours ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

I'm sure the business owner who just laid off all his staff and closed shop will feel differently. The internet and Amazon are killing the downtown the pandemic will be the final nail in the coffin.

On the other hand online shopping and deliveries can be a lifeline during a pandemic and people become reliant on these possibilities which only a fraction of businesses offer.

If local businesses don't keep up and diversify, then yes they will get left behind and eventually fold.

High streets already have the most empty ground floor units, with rising rents this is likely to continue to be the case.

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4 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

On the other hand online shopping and deliveries can be a lifeline during a pandemic and people become reliant on these possibilities which only a fraction of businesses offer.

If local businesses don't keep up and diversify, then yes they will get left behind and eventually fold.

High streets already have the most empty ground floor units, with rising rents this is likely to continue to be the case.

 

A commercial real estate wipe out will have an impact on banks.   

 

Sacrificing small business as if their demise at the hands of Amazon was inevitable will cause major disruptions.  

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1 hour ago, balticus said:

 

A commercial real estate wipe out will have an impact on banks.   

 

Sacrificing small business as if their demise at the hands of Amazon was inevitable will cause major disruptions.  

 

I am not sure if the corona virus is the death knell for European cities or just several more nails in the coffin! The transformation has been going on for years, manufacturing industry moved out ages ago and the housing that tended to surround it has been gentrified and is now high cost. Office work, retail and hospitality are now the main employers but the high cost of accommodation has forced many residents to become commuters particularly the lower paid ones who service the cities. The high cost and speculation of property, particularly retail,  has seen a steady decline in small or smaller retail businesses and consequently  in diversity of available offerings and even the national/international retailers are struggling against online shopping competition. Add to that the prospect of ongoing lockdowns, restrictions, fears due to the corona virus and the new norm of working from home then the decline in commuters, tourists and shoppers could become critical. Hospitality will fold quickly followed soon after by retail and the whole house of cards could come tumbling down.

We are all doomed.:o

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3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

I am not sure if the corona virus is the death knell for European cities or just several more nails in the coffin! The transformation has been going on for years, manufacturing industry moved out ages ago and the housing that tended to surround it has been gentrified and is now high cost. Office work, retail and hospitality are now the main employers but the high cost of accommodation has forced many residents to become commuters particularly the lower paid ones who service the cities. The high cost and speculation of property, particularly retail,  has seen a steady decline in small or smaller retail businesses and consequently  in diversity of available offerings and even the national/international retailers are struggling against online shopping competition. Add to that the prospect of ongoing lockdowns, restrictions, fears due to the corona virus and the new norm of working from home then the decline in commuters, tourists and shoppers could become critical. Hospitality will fold quickly followed soon after by retail and the whole house of cards could come tumbling down.

We are all doomed.:o

I don't think it will kill the cities off but it may push forward any changes that have been going on.

The so called high street of smaller towns and cities has been under pressure for years due to shopping centers being built outside the city. In recent years it has started to happen in bigger cities (200-300,000 inhabitants) but from what I can see, not so much in bigger cities (granted, I don't travel that much, so any info is what I hear from people I know living around the place). 
Corona will have pushed more people to ordering online and if it goes on too long it will change people's attitude to work in some areas.

I work in an office, I came in to the office this morning for the first time since March. I cannot say just how much I have not missed travelling to work and back. Working from home was always cool a few days a week and I never wanted to do more than that. But I am pretty much the only person in here, it's going to cost an hour travelling time and after 6 months or so and the commute today, my attitude has flipped. I now look on coming in to the office for a few days a week as being ok but I wouldn't want to do it full time anymore.

Those hospitality jobs are going to suffer if people are coming in to the city less than they have now.  Maybe smaller towns and cities will be insulated as the amount of high paying jobs may be smaller. Maybe they will have less trouble as not as many people live there etc.

We've lived with all this crap for over 6 months and it's still an evolving situation.

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39 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

I work in an office, I came in to the office this morning for the first time since March. I cannot say just how much I have not missed travelling to work and back. Working from home was always cool a few days a week and I never wanted to do more than that. But I am pretty much the only person in here, it's going to cost an hour travelling time and after 6 months or so and the commute today, my attitude has flipped. I now look on coming in to the office for a few days a week as being ok but I wouldn't want to do it full time anymore.

 

Not only that but I bet it won't be long before employers start thinking about how much money they could save by closing or reducing the size of their expensive city centre offices and having their employees work from home.

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1 minute ago, keith2011 said:

 

Not only that but I bet it won't be long before employers start thinking about how much money they could save by closing or reducing the size of their expensive city centre offices and having their employees work from home.

Bet most of them have been doing that since day 1 of the 1st lockdown.

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3 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Not only that but I bet it won't be long before employers start thinking about how much money they could save by closing or reducing the size of their expensive city centre offices and having their employees work from home.

Wouldn't surprise me either.

We use an array of different monitors, laptops and docking stations. I can well imagine that at some point firms could move over to one setup (same laptop, docking station and monitors) and go for a 'book a working space for a day' system.

Everyone gets their own laptop and headset, the rest is on the desk when you get there.

 

It will save companies cash and they can sell it as helping with the work/life balance. 

If they phase it in and it runs well for a few years then eventually it will become the norm as the older mindset gets old and retires. 

I was never a fan of moving to a system where I would have to book to come in to the office. Now though, I'd see it as better than having to come in 5 days a week. 

 

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42 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Wouldn't surprise me either.

We use an array of different monitors, laptops and docking stations. I can well imagine that at some point firms could move over to one setup (same laptop, docking station and monitors) and go for a 'book a working space for a day' system.

Everyone gets their own laptop and headset, the rest is on the desk when you get there.

 

It will save companies cash and they can sell it as helping with the work/life balance. 

If they phase it in and it runs well for a few years then eventually it will become the norm as the older mindset gets old and retires. 

I was never a fan of moving to a system where I would have to book to come in to the office. Now though, I'd see it as better than having to come in 5 days a week. 

 

this is a great topic for a new thread!!

 

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With one children crying in the other room right now, the other hungry and my wife telling me she needs more support (she's in one of those critical jobs who can't do home office), I'm at the loss why anyone prefers to stay at home. Maybe single, childless people, but even then I'd miss interacting with (some of) my colleagues - I work better that way. And I say this as someone who's done homeoffice on Fridays for the last five years or so, alone, without children and Corona stress and some time for myself. That was good. Right now it's like a never ending bad trip. Since July and until last week I was back in the company 3 or 4 days out of 5, that was OK. Now it's panic mode again.

 

Note: I have an office, and thus the danger of contagion at work is limited as long as people keep some distance. Open office concepts, which we luckily don't have at my company, deserve to die a quick but painful death. Always hated them and thought that they were purpously invented for rats running the rat race (the corner office being the cheese).

 

PS: the one stopped crying but now they're all shouting around the house :wacko:

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9 hours ago, cb6dba said:

 

I work in an office, I came in to the office this morning for the first time since March. I cannot say just how much I have not missed travelling to work and back. Working from home was always cool a few days a week and I never wanted to do more than that. But I am pretty much the only person in here, it's going to cost an hour travelling time and after 6 months or so and the commute today, my attitude has flipped. I now look on coming in to the office for a few days a week as being ok but I wouldn't want to do it full time anymore
 

Anecdotal but noticing more people are back in the office, few friends mentioned they were pressured into coming back in. Any idea what percentage at back in the office?

 

Another side effect of Covid is collapsing  rents (condos city centre) In major cities. Haven't heard this happening yet in German major cites.

 

Toronto but representative of any major city, people are fleeing cities. Condo proces collapsing SFD burbs exploding in price

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, mtbiking said:

With one children crying in the other room right now, the other hungry and my wife telling me she needs more support (she's in one of those critical jobs who can't do home office), I'm at the loss why anyone prefers to stay at home.

So what happens with the kids when you`re both at work then ?

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9 hours ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

Anecdotal but noticing more people are back in the office, few friends mentioned they were pressured into coming back in. Any idea what percentage at back in the office?

I know that some companies never granted home office and workers continued to come into the office and sit at their desk jobs. 

Others that did get home office went back to commuting in June after the end of the shutdown when the trains went back to normal.

Mind you these are all Germans who live here but work in Zurich. The Swiss take the pandemic far less seriously than the Germans. Masks in shops have only been compulsory since this week in some areas. :rolleyes:

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16 hours ago, mtbiking said:

With one children crying in the other room right now, the other hungry and my wife telling me she needs more support (she's in one of those critical jobs who can't do home office), I'm at the loss why anyone prefers to stay at home... Maybe single, childless people,

 

PS: the one stopped crying but now they're all shouting around the house :wacko:

 

dt201013.gif

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

So what happens with the kids when you`re both at work then ?


I was weeks without going to work in March/April. Afterward it got better, as the worst case didn’t materialize in Germany and hospitals started sending their staff home to reduce their overtime.
 

At some point Söder decided parents had the right to notfalls betreuung even if only one parent has a system relevant job, but the hours were reduced. It helped a lot though. 
 

I’m not complaining per se, we’re privileged in comparison to many, with safe jobs and a house with garden. Just saying that homeoffice right now is not something to wish for. And when everything is back to normal, I’m thinking that most companies will want people at the workplace most of the time. Stereotypical programmers aside, most academic/office jobs benefit from close interaction IMO. And it’s much easier for the bosses to evaluate the work flows and performance. Humans are a very social species and video conferences are a crutch but not equivalent to personal contact.

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Half of Europe’s Smaller Businesses Risk Bankruptcy Within Year

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-22/half-of-europe-s-smaller-businesses-risk-bankruptcy-within-year?sref=RJ2RlMrh

 

One in five companies in Italy and France anticipate filing for insolvency within six months, according to a McKinsey & Co. survey in August of more than 2,200 SMEs in Europe’s five largest economies. Such businesses are key to the region, accounting for more than two-thirds of the workforce and more than half of the economic value-added.

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5 hours ago, balticus said:

Half of Europe’s Smaller Businesses Risk Bankruptcy Within Year

 

To paraphrase one of your favourite predictions/comments: Many of those businesses would be bankrupt sooner or later anyway without the corona virus!:P

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6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Many of those businesses would be bankrupt sooner or later anyway without corona

But how many of those would have tried to say the reason was Brexit ??!! :lol:

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