6,203 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, john g. said:

 

Stupid is as stupid does, this is nothing but a power grab. Damm the torpedos full speed ahead. 

 

Noticed this today on twitter

 

Patrick Vallance Covid isn't going away trigger warning Daily Mail article. 

 

As an aside I'm getting used to experts "zooming in" rather than being in the studio when on TV. What most people don't realize is the economic cost of Zoom. That person on TV pontificating, pre-covid, would have driven into the city, paid for parking, probably bought a coffee and a bagel on the way in, maybe grabbed a bite to eat on the way out. Small business that cater to the business traffic in a city are hurting in a major way.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, john g. said:

Wales set for almost complete shutdown for two weeks:

 

It is not just Wales, Belgium looks set to do the same and Berchtesgaden  which is not far down the road, has also just begun a 2 week lockdown.

Looks to me like we will soon be back again where we were in March!:(

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

As an aside I'm getting used to experts "zooming in" rather than being in the studio when on TV. What most people don't realize is the economic cost of Zoom. That person on TV pontificating, pre-covid, would have driven into the city, paid for parking, probably bought a coffee and a bagel on the way in, maybe grabbed a bite to eat on the way out. Small business that cater to the business traffic in a city are hurting in a major way.

Some would argue that there is no actual need for him to drive into the city to talk about the pandemic. You could say zooming in is better, firstly because it means one less person unnecessarily putting themselves at risk and secondly because it is one less car clogging up the roads. 

Air pollution around the world is significantly less during pandemic times. 

Also he didn't say anything that we really didn't already know. We know full well the pandemic is here to stay. There will be cases for years to come with or without any vaccine. I didn't need to watch the video to realise that. :(

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Tim Hortons Man said:

What most people don't realize is the economic cost of Zoom. 

 

That's because we're all so blinded by the environmental benefits.  Our bad. 

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

It is not just Wales, Belgium looks set to do the same and Berchtesgaden  which is not far down the road, has also just begun a 2 week lockdown.

Looks to me like we will soon be back again where we were in March!:(

I doubt it will reach that extreme in most parts of Germany. I think we don´t get the full picture on how bad it was in March because testing was lacking by then. My guess is that we have 5x less infected per day than in March in Germany, based on percentage of positive tests.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I doubt it will reach that extreme in most parts of Germany. I think we don´t get the full picture on how bad it was in March because testing was lacking by then. My guess is that we have 5x less infected per day than in March in Germany, based on percentage of positive tests.

I think you may well be correct but faced with the current figures it will be down to how the authorities react to the situation, will they risk not taking action early with all the potential health, social and political consequences, or risk the already fragile economy again? Difficult:unsure:

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

I doubt it will reach that extreme in most parts of Germany.

 

1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

how the authorities react to the situation, will they risk not taking action early with all the potential health, social and political consequences, or risk the already fragile economy again?

 

I find any unnecessary deaths already to be 'extreme'. I find a worldwide pandemic which has clearly been out of control for some time now, to be 'extreme'. 

 

Surely doing everything to save lives comes before the economy? Even if the economy could be described as fragile:unsure:

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

Surely doing everything to save lives comes before the economy? Even if the economy could be described as fragile:unsure:

If that was true there would hardly be any wars.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, lunaCH said:

 

 

I find any unnecessary deaths already to be 'extreme'. I find a worldwide pandemic which has clearly been out of control for some time now, to be 'extreme'. 

 

Surely doing everything to save lives comes before the economy? Even if the economy could be described as fragile:unsure:

Never mind unnecessary, i'm not happy about any (not saying you are, just going a little further with your point) deaths.

This was point and play off all along. To minimise the amount of people getting ill, we lockdown to whatever degree. This causes less cash to flow in the local economy which causes problems (understandably, behind each local business there are people), people not being able to work causes them problems, so government have to find a balance. 

That balance will lead to people getting ill and some deaths. Those deaths are not what I would call as necessary, they are just an outcome of the measures taken (whether we accept/like it or not).

 

The scary thing is, there is no bance, not when you drill down. If your mother gets sick and dies, or survives but with long term effects, then there is no 'we had to find a balance' explanation that is going to make the situation better or make you feel better. 

If we add that no matter what we do some people will get ill and die (not everyone can live in isolation, some people need carers etc, people still have to go to the doctor etc), government will look at the bigger picture and draw a line.
They will look at what can be done, draw a line that they think fits with their goals and how they understand the pandemic.

If they are fixed on the economy, then you can have a lot of ill people, if you are focused on people then you have less ill people but the economy can suffer.

On a high level they will have an idea about how many deaths and infections are acceptable, at what point it would look bad for them (to voters).

 

 All you can do is keep you and your loved ones as safe as possible and do not assume anyone one else will give a shit about you. Some people don't see this as a problem because they live in very low risk areas and won't until people near them get ill.

Never underestimate the 'some has to...' before people take notice situation.
 
 

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The perils of doing little or nothing are obvious, you only have to look at Sweden for an example, however as @MikeMelga posted the massive increase in testing means we can't compare things now to the start of the outbreak in Feb/March when high rates of hospital admissions and deaths were already upon us by the time testing got going. None the less doing nothing in the current situation would be negligent but it is becoming increasingly clear that partial lockdowns do not appear to be working, so what should be done?

The situation of Greater Manchester in the UK may be a classic case, they have seen massive increases in new infections partially the result of outbreaks in accommodation for students of their very large University despite being under partial lockdown. The local authority is resisting attempts by the UK government to place them under much tighter restrictions, claiming the new infection rate is on the decline and without increased support for business a lockdown will be catastrophic for the economy,

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54609165

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a closer look at data and just looking at the data of today compared with late March, there are 5x more testing done, 10x less deaths per day and 5x less people with positive results, although number of new daily infections are similar to the ones in late March.

Also from a positive perspective, let's not forget that in March there were many places in the country with very few cases, so it was really, really bad in some areas and almost normal in others.

 

As people say in management, if you can't measure it, you can't control it. With 5x more tests per day, with local lockdowns and intermediate measures as required, this could go on forever, while waiting for a vaccine. Perhaps they do a full lockdown on an entire region for 2 weeks in some extreme cases.

 

But my point is: the system in Germany is getting ready to hold it off for a long, long time. Even if there is no vaccine nor treatment improvements, the vast improvement in testing (and with room for improvement) will mean localized control, meaning that in most cases a country wide lockdown is avoidable.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, john g. said:

The Daily Express reports baby shampoo does the trick against Covid https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1349993/covid-19-uk-coronavirus-baby-shampoo-mouthwash

No brands mentioned though unless you google and follow links.

Is this to avoid the Daily Express causing a rush to supermarkets or other shops with people stockpiling 'No more tears' whilst they hurry to grab the last pack of toilet rolls?

 

Results here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26514 

John you could cause the price of Johnson's Baby Shampoo and Listerine mouthwash to soar by spreading this.

Or maybe not as you're not on Fays-Buch. :lol:

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, john g. said:

The Daily Express reports baby shampoo does the trick against Covid!😂

 

 

I have to admit that I answered the Express poll with: 

             -- no I wouldn't gargle with baby shampoo - it sounds bonkers.

 

Very astute of the Express to have such a choice in their poll I thought,

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

  no I wouldn't gargle with baby shampoo - it sounds bonkers.

I think the shampoo is intended as a nasal rinse. The mouthwash for the oral rinse. 

 

Nasal rinses and mouthwashes, which directly treat the major sites of reception and transmission of HCoV, may provide an additional level of protection against the virus. While clinical trials will be necessary to confirm the virucidal potential of these products and assess their ability to limit transmission of HCoV within the general population, in the current manuscript we have demonstrated here that several commonly available healthcare products have significant virucidal properties with respect to HCoV.

 

Doctors have already been utilizing baby shampoo for chronic sinus infections for years.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, folks! Plenty of people over the years have told me to wash my dirty mouth out!😂

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, silty1 said:

 

That's because we're all so blinded by the environmental benefits.  Our bad. 


I'm sure the business owner who just laid off all his staff and closed shop will feel differently. The internet and Amazon are killing the downtown the pandemic will be the final nail in the coffin. Not just business lost but the jobs and The local tax revenue from them. if hard lockdowns persist it's expected the vast majority (Some 75%) of small business will fail. Give it a couple of years and downtowns be ghost towns. 

Rather surprisingly in our city most restaurants seem to be surviving, but we'll see what spring brings. 
 

Seeing this more and more. Doctors say more lockdowns aren't the answer.

 

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/doctor-on-covid-front-lines-speaks-out-on-why-more-lockdowns-arent-the-answer?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1603212349
 

I feel completely comfortable meeting friends outside but the wife not so much, so for the moment we're not seeing anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tim Hortons Man, it is impossible to fight Amazon if you can't add unique value to your product. Not only Amazon has great prices, but the service quality is very good.

The future holds two solutions: either you bet on added value stores or you make your store inside Amazon.

Example: a computer store can still survive and prosper by providing services together with sales. Configuring or repairing a computer, for example.

On the other hand, a toy store has no future. A few will keep existing in malls, as kids want to buy what they see, but the expensive toys purchases will be done online.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now