6,148 posts in this topic

On 9/19/2020, 6:02:48, keith2011 said:

Same old BS that came out when Covid was still only in China.:o

Wake up balti Spain has recorded 680 Covid deaths since Monday, France had 154 deaths yesterday and the number has risen every day from 38 last Monday! The pandemic isn't over, it is still out there and getting bad again.

Watch this post be spectacularly ignored by Balticus while it replies to ones where it can extend the argument without looking as much of an idiot.

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10 hours ago, balticus said:

If you consider COVID an existential risk after 0.066% of the US population has died with (not necessarily from) COVID, you might not be thrilled to hear how detrimental to your health cigarettes are.  

 

🤪

Wrong. Existential risk is around 1%. 0.066% is the percentage of those who died already, despite all measures.

 

BTW, US wars for the past 30 years have a fatality rate of 1%. This covers both Gulf wars, for example. So Covid is about as risky as being a soldier and going to war (on the American side). It is also around the same probability of being an astronaut and getting killed going to space, despite all precautions.

Soldiers and astronauts are considered risk jobs. And you downplay it.

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30 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Watch this post be spectacularly ignored by Balticus while it replies to ones where it can extend the argument without looking as much of an idiot.

 

Well, the people hiding hiding behind the Fake Estonian account need to earn their salary!

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22 hours ago, balticus said:

According to Nobel Laureate Michael Levitt, the virus weakens itself while reproducing.    

That may well be because it´s best for a virus to keep it´s host population alive so it has more hosts available and as big as possible. That´s a process that takes decades though. So not yet relevant.

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On 20/09/2020, 21:03:41, Keleth said:

Watch this post be spectacularly ignored by Balticus while it replies to ones where it can extend the argument without looking as much of an idiot.

Not a peep anywhere as far as I can see for a couple of days now, I'm almost missing the BS.:rolleyes:

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@keith2011 and @Keleth :  

 

I am simply waiting another two weeks to see if the surge in cases is accompanied by a surge in hospitalizations and deaths with a two week lag.    My guess is that it won't be, but the DATA should be ultimate indicator rather than a flowery narrative written by a journalist or the oppotunisitic fear mongering of a politician.  

 

In my opinion, the Swedish approach was the best, and the voices of respected Scientists echoing this sentiment are becoming louder. 

 

If you have new information to offer to the conversation, i look forward to reading it.  

 

 

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On 17/09/2020, 21:12:49, MikeMelga said:

now using face shields instead of masks. I though this was not an acceptable replacement!

I can't see how they can be acceptable as they are fully open!

 

On 17/09/2020, 21:34:58, Feierabend said:

That states that BW does not allow them, yet I've seen shop workers using them, so it's clearly not adhered to and practically impossible to enforce.

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1 hour ago, balticus said:

but the DATA should be ultimate indicator rather than a flowery narrative written by a journalist or the oppotunisitic fear mongering of a politician.  

 

In my opinion, the Swedish approach was the best, and the voices of respected Scientists echoing this sentiment are becoming louder. 

 

If you have new information to offer to the conversation, i look forward to reading it.  

 

Want data? Sure, here it is. The reality is even worst for Sweden, as they are masking their fuck up with insufficient testing.

Not only that, Sweden had everything to go with it. Low population density, highest percentage of people living alone, low number of tourists and business travels and so on. Still they fucked it up.

And what for? A 8.5% drop in GDP in Q2, compared with 10% in Germany.

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On 9/20/2020, 10:53:03, balticus said:

If you consider COVID an existential risk after 0.066% of the US population has died with (not necessarily from) COVID, you might not be thrilled to hear how detrimental to your health cigarettes are.  

 

🤪

Cigarettes are voluntary and at one's own risk! :huh:

 

There are two extremes to a strategy a government can adopt to deal with a pandemic:

i) accept the risk that "some" people will die, but not all, if not much is done to prevent spread - in order to keep things as normal as possible

ii) try to keep infections to a minimum to prevent deaths, by imposing strict measures to minimise spread

 

As a citizen, I'd personally prefer to be in a country where the government's strategy is more in the direction of (ii) above.

 

A few years' ago, the UK Government decided NOT to stockpile anti-virals in the face of a looming avian-flu pandemic. The German Government did so.

The UK Government was lucky...no pandemic materialised. The German Government was "unlucky"...waste of money. Which government would you as a citizen prefer to have? I'm happy where I am, thank you very much!

 

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19 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Want data? Sure, here it is. The reality is even worst for Sweden, as they are masking their fuck up with insufficient testing.

Not only that, Sweden had everything to go with it. Low population density, highest percentage of people living alone, low number of tourists and business travels and so on. Still they fucked it up.

And what for? A 8.5% drop in GDP in Q2, compared with 10% in Germany.

 

 

There were strict lockdowns in Spain, France, and Belgium and they are worse off than Sweden.   Sweden did not decimate its small businesses and other countries which have will find that those cannot be regenerated overnight.  

 

In case there is any doubt, i agree with the Swedish approach and you don't.   

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4 minutes ago, balticus said:

In case there is any doubt, i agree with the Swedish approach and you don't.   

 

Your agreement does not change the fact that Sweden made a big mistake in their handling of the corona virus, a mistake that cost 10 times the number of lives compared to their neighbours!

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47 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Your agreement does not change the fact that Sweden made a big mistake in their handling of the corona virus, a mistake that cost 10 times the number of lives compared to their neighbours!

 

Better than Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK and without a lockdown or second wave.

 

Perhaps you should be focusing on those countries.   

 

Sweden's position will look better and better as time goes on.  

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Is doing better than the countries who did worst even worth mentioning?

 

It is certainly a trick kids try to make themselves feel better when they don't do very well at school, but I don't think that in the real world it is actually a measure of success.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, balticus said:

 

Better than Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the UK and without a lockdown or second wave.

 

Perhaps you should be focusing on those countries.   

 

Sweden's position will look better and better as time goes on.  

 

 

If it is over like you claim then the rising infection rate in Belgium, Spain, Italy and the UK is nothing to worry about and will not result in increasing hospital admissions and deaths. In which case the high death rate in Sweden remains a failure.

If it is not yet over, which looks most likely, we can expect to see a second wave in Sweden also and if they haven't learnt from their mistake a further high death rate.

You can't have it both ways!

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12 hours ago, dom said:

 

 

There are two extremes to a strategy a government can adopt to deal with a pandemic:

i) accept the risk that "some" people will die, but not all, if not much is done to prevent spread - in order to keep things as normal as possible

ii) try to keep infections to a minimum to prevent deaths, by imposing strict measures to minimise spread

 


I'd say, now 6 months in and no hope of the pandemic ending people Are saying “fuck it” life goes on.  Noticed restaurants are much busier, more and more people eating inside, almost nobody social distances anymore. Only thing remaining the same is people tend to wear masks and even that is changing. In the bank yesterday to sigh some paperwork and first thing the guys asks if we can take off our masks.

 

Governments are getting desperate Ottawa Canada is threatening 5000 dollar a day fines to anyone who doesn¡t quarantine if they have any symptoms. Order of course excludes teachers. Lowly paid essential workers, sucks to be you if you can't afford rent or food.

 

Australia is looking more and more like China! 

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Are you writing from the US, @Rushrush? Here the defeatist attitude encouraged by Trump has created a compliant populace that's lying back and saying, 'Take me now.' Countries whose leadership is more cognizant of science, epidemiology, and social responsibility are doing better. The US with five percent of the world's population and - currently - more than twenty percent of the world's covid-19 deaths, doesn't have a record the rest of the world strives to beat.
Swear to God, if this is Making America Great Again, I think the plan is a failure. Wearing those China-made red hats isn't doing any good.

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1 hour ago, Rushrush said:


I'd say, now 6 months in and no hope of the pandemic ending people Are saying “fuck it” life goes on.  Noticed restaurants are much busier, more and more people eating inside, almost nobody social distances anymore. Only thing remaining the same is people tend to wear masks and even that is changing. In the bank yesterday to sigh some paperwork and first thing the guys asks if we can take off our masks.

 

Governments are getting desperate Ottawa Canada is threatening 5000 dollar a day fines to anyone who doesn¡t quarantine if they have any symptoms. Order of course excludes teachers. Lowly paid essential workers, sucks to be you if you can't afford rent or food.

 

Australia is looking more and more like China! 

Funnily enough ( or not ), I was at our local mini-market earlier today ( with my mask on ) and an Australian was in there buying a couple of beers. He spoke in English -  so I recognised the accent.

I moaned to him how I found it hard to breathe with the mask on ( and particularly in the heat right now ) and he said: „ yeah, but at least you‘re allowed to take it off when you leave this mini- market. We are not allowed to be without a mask anywhere in Australia.“

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