6,203 posts in this topic

Trump knew at least as back as February that coronavirus was airborne, easily spread, and deadly, but he not only did nothing about it, he encouraged people not to do anything about it and ridiculed those who did.

 

And Bob Woodword taped the whole thing.

 

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18 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

5f58ad43e3b57_fark_ZCNhtTPlcF_Ywnke--LKN

 

Hopefully the COVID crisis will convince those who take no personal responsibility for their unhealthy lifestyle choices to grow up a bit.  

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58 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

Hopefully the COVID crisis will convince those who take no personal responsibility for their unhealthy lifestyle choices to grow up a bit.  

A bit hypocritical don`t you think.

Coming from the person who sees no problem with people not wearing a mask.

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

A bit hypocritical don`t you think.

Coming from the person who sees no problem with people not wearing a mask.

 

As stated yesterday, i see it the opposite way.    

 

Those who are in higher risk groups should self-isolate to the maximum degree possible, i.e. take responsibility for their own health rather than putting restrictions on everyone else. 

 

If you have high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, poor diet, other risks - take the steps to solve your own problems.    

 

If you don't make changes to preserve your own health, why the rest of society indulge you?

 

Hope that inspires you to make some positive lifestyle changes.  ;) 

 

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Go hard and fast and then get things opened again ASAP... A delicate and daily balancing act. (via facebook post)

 

 

 

The problem with this that politicians are being disingenuous, they keep saying a few weeks and/or months of restrictions, the end of the year for sure than everything will be back to normal.  But nothing could be further from the truth, Covid is here to stay and so are the restrictions.  I suspect it’s why politicians have grabbed a hold of the printing presses. They know the economy isn’t gong to recover anytime soon and mass unemployment is bad for the their political futures so let's give everyone money and just inflate the debt away.

 

But I really wish they’d be honest and say this is here to stay we need to learn to live with it.

 

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46 minutes ago, balticus said:

If you have high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, poor diet, other risks - take the steps to solve your own problems.   

Easy-peasy right? And always the poor bugger's own fault. No such thing as nature's lottery out there... or just where you happen to live...

 

On 09/09/2020, 08:21:13, balticus said:

Did you get your mammogram?    Did your school aged boys get their Colonoscopies?   Has your wife worried about going bald?  

None of these are rampantly exponentially infectious... so not exactly a great comparison. Did not realise baldness was life-threatening.

 

Dunno who balticus was in a previous life. I have the impression he is a trainee lawyer practising his arguing skills. Doesn't actually have to believe what he is saying... just has to score a point. That is not an ad hominem. Just an inescapable observation.

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1 hour ago, balticus said:

Those who are in higher risk groups should self-isolate to the maximum degree possible, i.e. take responsibility for their own health rather than putting restrictions on everyone else. 

 

That's an interesting spin on 'self isolate to protect everyone else'.

You can dress it up with 'to protect their health' but the base here is not wanting to be restricted to protect others, right? You don't want to be restricted to protect them.

 

The question here would be, why should they? Why should they restrict their movements to protect your health and allow you to go about your life? 

Given that you are talking about personal responsibility, isn't it your responsibility to protect yourself, not others?

 

 Asking them to stay at home would be like asking the rest of us to accept less sugar etc in our food so they don't eat as much of it. Which as you have covered above, is not personal responsibility, that is expecting others to accept something to protect yourself.

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Cowboy @balticus also forgets that people cannot self isolate forever. A lot of them cannot do home office. How are they supposed to pay the bills? Or are you going to pay their bills?

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36 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Cowboy @balticus also forgets that people cannot self isolate forever. A lot of them cannot do home office. How are they supposed to pay the bills? Or are you going to pay their bills?

Maybe personal responsibility also means personal consequences?

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1 hour ago, optimista said:

And always the poor bugger's own fault. No such thing as nature's lottery out there... or just where you happen to live...

 

Always?   You are using the same strawperson as AlexTr.    

 

Lifestyle choices have a huge impact on health.    To suggest that everything is just random and nothing can be done to avoid health problems is simply wrong.  

 

1 hour ago, optimista said:

None of these are rampantly exponentially infectious... so not exactly a great comparison. Did not realise baldness was life-threatening.

 

You have missed the point:   why would anyone expend a lot of time and money mitigating risks which have negligible probabilities.

 

1 hour ago, optimista said:

Dunno who balticus was in a previous life. I have the impression he is a trainee lawyer practising his arguing skills. Doesn't actually have to believe what he is saying... just has to score a point. That is not an ad hominem. Just an inescapable observation.

 

I clarify my own opinions by writing them down in argument fashion.   In which country is calling someone a "lawyer" not an ad hominem?   :lol:

 

 

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54 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Cowboy @balticus also forgets that people cannot self isolate forever. A lot of them cannot do home office. How are they supposed to pay the bills? Or are you going to pay their bills?

 

Self-isolation is not an "all or nothing" proposition, but rather an effort to reduce interaction to the bare minimum.

 

In the mean and nasty time, they should make lifestyle changes to enhance their health and immune systems if their risk factors are the result of poor lifestyle decisions.  

 

"Cowboy?"   :lol: 

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Cowboy @balticus also forgets that people cannot self isolate forever. A lot of them cannot do home office. How are they supposed to pay the bills? Or are you going to pay their bills?

 

Statistics in third world countries are now showing that poor people are much more affected and have much higher risk of dying.   So they should change their lifestyle and stop being poor.  Or isolate themselves and die of hunger.

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8 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Statistics in third world countries are now showing that poor people are much more affected and have much higher risk of dying.   So they should change their lifestyle and stop being poor.  Or isolate themselves and die of hunger.

 

Please do link those statistics.    ;) 

 

We are talking primarily about Germany with respect to the mask policy, but with some reference to the favorite whipping person of state worshipping clones:   Sweden.  

 

It is surprising to see so many people declare that good health is largely just a genetic lottery.   

 

Lifestyle and dietary decisions have consequences, and for adults, they are mostly a result of personal choices/preferences.    

 

 

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Not so good news in Munich. Cases keep rising. My guess is that after a slowdown, it picked up again as families return from holidays for the new school year.

Good news is that it mainly looks bad in Bavaria. Especially the north of Germany looks quite OK.

 

corona_munich_20200910.png.8951c65c008cc

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No answer to my questions.

Either i'm blocked (which makes me suspicious) or there are just no answers to give.

As I say, beware people ignoring other members and concentrating on you, it usually means 'you' are the goal, not the topic.

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6 hours ago, cb6dba said:

The question here would be, why should they? Why should they restrict their movements to protect your health and allow you to go about your life? 

The vulnerable groups would self-isolate to protect themselves, not to protect me.

6 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Given that you are talking about personal responsibility, isn't it your responsibility to protect yourself, not others?

 

Yes - we agree.

 

6 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Asking them to stay at home would be like asking the rest of us to accept less sugar etc in our food so they don't eat as much of it.

 

No - i would ask people at risk to mitigate their own risk first rather than restricting others to mitigate the risk.  

 

It would be like inviting a group of people over with some of them having Diabetes.   I would expect the diabetics to manage what they eat rather than forcing everyone else to comply with their dietary needs.    Vegetarians the same.

6 hours ago, cb6dba said:

Which as you have covered above, is not personal responsibility, that is expecting others to accept something to protect yourself.

 

My position is the opposite of that.    People who have vulnerabilities, and especially those who have vulnerabilities due to poor lifestyle choices do not get to dictate what everyone else does.   They need to get their own health in order first before asking others to sacrfice.  

 

Didn't mean to ignore your questions.  ;)

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