6,203 posts in this topic

31 minutes ago, balticus said:

People who will not take basic steps to secure their own health have a weak case for demanding restrictions on others.

 

 

In other words: Facemask deniers can demand that fat people become thin but fat people can't demand that facemask deniers wear masks while shopping.

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6 minutes ago, Smaug said:

In other words: Facemask deniers can demand that fat people become thin but fat people can't demand that facemask deniers wear masks while shopping.

 

People at risk take measures to protect themselves via isolation or mask wearing.

 

Health deniers who want to remain overweight or obese can do whatever they want, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to take measures to accomodate their bad choices.  

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3 hours ago, lunaCH said:

Whilst this is true, many people who are obese gorged themselves silly to get where they are. No one force fed them junk food and drink full of sugar. 

Children and those with medical problems excepted of course. 

 

I think this comment is rather simplistic. There are multiple reasons for obesity, including chronic depression and mental health challenges as well complex subtle medical issues and medications. Comfort eating may be seen as gorging but often it is not, simply a symptom of underlying issues.

 

To address obesity, as with many modern day chronic health issues we need a comprehensive whole health approach which indeed could then include a cooperative approach to diseases like COVID-19.

 

I do not think finger pointing at any one group is helpful but helping to bring forward real options to improve health care and education I would love to see more ;)

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39 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

People at risk take measures to protect themselves via isolation or mask wearing.

 

Health deniers who want to remain overweight or obese can do whatever they want, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to take measures to accomodate their bad choices.  

Fortunately this is not US and the wild west libertarian mindset.

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Although seems well under control in Germany, the situation in Munich and Bavaria is still not good.

I´ve made a comparison with the first wave in Munich and the current rise in daily new cases is 4x slower. In practice, it is probably even better, as testing capabilities are much better now.

There is an uptick in the past 4 days, let´s see how it evolves. Note: this is only for Munich, daily new cases.

corona_munich_20200908.png.e1bd79ef8d9eb

 

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34 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

The function of a face mask (nose/mouth covering) is to keep the others safe - not the wearer.

That´s only tue to a degree. Even if there will some virus pass through a clothmask some will also be held back. And the severity of symptoms you will develop correlates with the dose of virus you get infected with. I´d rather be infected by say 10,000 virus particles than with 100,000. For the record though: I´m wearing a FFP3 mask when shopping etc.

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4 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Fortunately this is not US and the wild west libertarian mindset.

That is the mindset of Socialist Sweden rather than the US.  

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4 hours ago, HH_Sailor said:

Oh dear - what short memory some people have...

 

A face mask is there to prevent the virus getting OUT

and not the virus getting IN. You'd need a very uncomfortable and close fitting FP3 mask for that.

 

If the vulnerable want to venture out, then uncomfortable FP3 facemask it should be.    They might prefer to stay home and self-isolate.

4 hours ago, HH_Sailor said:

The function of a face mask (nose/mouth covering) is to keep the others safe - not the wearer.

 

If the vulnerable stay at home, nobody needs to wear a facemask. 

 

If the vulnerable feel safer with a mask, then they can wear one.  

 

If the vulnerable invite others to their home, they can make the mask rules in their own home. 

 

The whole of society does not need to mask up, and especially not for people who have increased risk due to bad lifestyle choices.  

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6 hours ago, kirakay said:

There are multiple reasons for obesity

I agree entirely with this. Which is exactly why I said many and not all, whilst excluding medical conditions;)

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2 hours ago, balticus said:

If the vulnerable stay at home, nobody needs to wear a face mask.

Highly simplistic and flawed theory.

 

Unfortunately you only know how vulnerable you are after the event. Like when it is too late. Apparently low-risk individuals are not excluded from getting hit badly. Even when I was a week into covid I still did not think I had anything to worry about. Mid-50s. Normal weight. No co-morbidities. No medical history. Fit for my age. Definitely not high risk. On the face of it. Then my lungs stopped doing their job... erm, optimally. Which was worrying, and you realise that this is not happening to other people... you are breathing but not getting any air. Where will it stop? Wanna go to a hospital in chaos or die in your own bed? Time to decide... this is happening to YOU... months later, still not o.k.

 

I am not a fan of masks. But you really do not want this. Or your granny to get it. Or your teenager.

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2 hours ago, balticus said:

If the vulnerable stay at home, nobody needs to wear a facemask. 

That´s an impossible demand and you know it. Even the vulnerable have to do shopping, see a dentist, doctor, physio, go to job interviews, apply for a passport....

 

2 hours ago, balticus said:

If the vulnerable feel safer with a mask, then they can wear one.

Not all of them. Some have justified medical reasons not to.

 

2 hours ago, balticus said:

The whole of society does not need to mask up, and especially not for people who have increased risk due to bad lifestyle choices.

I don´t know anyone who hasn´t made poor lifestyle choices. And a lot of people are vulnerable not because of lifestyle choices but for reasons beyond their control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, the idea that only the old, infirm, and out of shape suffer grievously from COVID-19  is just about the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

 

Athletes Revealing Serious COVID-19 Symptoms Provide Another Hurdle to a 2020 Season

 

Quote

For a big man, Feeney was in top shape, always one of the last in the weight room, and aside from a knee injury his senior season, had no real health complications or underlying issues. That’s why Pingel and others at the school were shocked this week to learn that Feeney had battled significant COVID-19 symptoms after contracting the virus during workouts this summer at Indiana.

He had serious enough breathing problems to warrant a trip to the emergency room. In a post on her Facebook page, his mother, Debbie Rucker, described the ordeal as “14 days of hell.” Her son is still experiencing symptoms, she wrote, and he could suffer from heart-related issues as an after-effect of the disease. His blood work has indicated “additional problems, too.

 

But you know, it's not like you should just take the data from top athletes. 

 

False claim: All patients who die of COVID-19 have serious health problems 

 

Quote

Health professionals have told Reuters that even young and healthy people are succumbing to the infection, sometimes deteriorating rapidly and taking doctors by surprise (here). 

Scientists believe genetic susceptibility or the amount of virus that infects a person could cause some young and healthy people to die of the disease (here here here).

The latest Office for National Statistics figures reveal just under a tenth of all COVID-19 deaths in England and Wales in March and April had no pre-existing health conditions (here here).

However, it is true that older adults and those with certain health conditions are more vulnerable to the virus (here).

 

So, what did we learn:

 

That some are more vulnerable doesn't mean that others are invulnerable. 

 

Everyone should read more.

 

Everyone should do their part to stop the spread by wearing a mask, social distancing,  and growing the entire fuck up.

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5 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Well, the idea that only the old, infirm, and out of shape suffer grievously from COVID-19  is just about the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

...

False claim: All patients who die of COVID-19 have serious health problems 

 

Beautiful strawpeople.    Nobody has made those claims on this board.   You have shifted "high probability" to "only" and "many" to "all".   

 

5 hours ago, AlexTr said:

 

So, what did we learn:

 

That some are more vulnerable doesn't mean that others are invulnerable. 

Around 95% who die from COVID have at least one comorbidity. 

 

The other 5% may have comorbidities which were not documented.  

 

The median age of deaths in most western countries is north of 80 years old.  

 

The idea that the virus's impact is random and high risk demographics are unknown is denial.   

 

Public health choices along with other policy choices should be made based on the known probabilities and the impacts not on scaremongering or anti-scientific narratives which reject known data.

 

All patients who die from breast cancer are not women, but most are.    As far as I know, most men do not perform regular self checks because the risks are negligible.     

 

A graphic description of the misery of male breast cancer would not change the fact that the risk is low.   Setting male breast cancer prevention as a public health priority would likewise be a waste of time, money, and resources.   

 

5 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Everyone should read more.

Please start by enrolling in a Statistics course on Udemy or Coursera after enrolling in an Algebra class.   

5 hours ago, AlexTr said:

 

Everyone should do their part to stop the spread by wearing a mask, social distancing,  and growing the entire fuck up.

 

Isolate the high risk groups so that the social and health impacts of the restrictions are minimized.     

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Blah blah blah keep everyone else out of my face and let me carry on with my sad, egotistical, maskless existence.

 

Everyone who dies but me deserved it for some reason.

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12 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Blah blah blah keep everyone else out of my face and let me carry on with my sad, egotistical, maskless existence.

 

Anyone who dies but me deserved it for some reason.

 

Now take the next step. Next time when you drive a car, fly, heat etc. think about all the people that die because of air pollution. We need to tackle this deadly problem too.

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11 hours ago, optimista said:

Unfortunately you only know how vulnerable you are after the event. 

 

Unfortunately, we don't know how vulnerable we are to the political, social, and medical consequences until later.  

 

Increases in incidences of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse,  and domestic violence along with deteriorating educational quality are known. 

 

Nobody wants to get sick especially with very unpleasant symptoms, but society cannot shut down for low probability events without consequences.

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Only the guy who wins the lottery should buy the lottery.   Follow Balti for more life savings advice.

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Only the guy who wins the lottery should buy the lottery.   Follow Balti for more life savings advice.

 

Did you get your mammogram?    Did your school aged boys get their Colonoscopies?   Has your wife worried about going bald?  

 

It is highly unlikely that any of those should be a concern, but who knows?    ;)

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