4,866 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Keleth said:

I don`t think anyone believes the politicians actually care(well HF probably believes that about Johnson and the Tories)

 

11 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

p.s. Are you really suggesting that no politicians care about people, keleth?

 

Come on, keleth!

 

You're a fine one for accusing people of not answering questions but then go on and do it yourself. 

 

It's a bit rich, isn't it. 

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Good news from Sweden, this week deaths finally dropped significantly, perhaps a 40% reduction from last week. This was after 3 weeks of stagnation. 7 day average at 40.

 

In Portugal, not so good news. After a low point of 10 deaths per day a week ago, the 7 day average grew to 15. Seems people are a bit overconfident, but let's look at it again next week.

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8 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

Lucky for me that I have a white collar job must be done in German that can't be outsourced offshore to foreigners with crappy German.  :)

 

 

Same here. My entire company has been declared essential and nobody is getting laid off.

No way our work can be outsourced - believe me, we've tried and it was an unholy mess.

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@MikeMelga Yesterday was a holiday in Sweden, so it's a long weekend for many. Numbers might go up next week. Citizens have been asked to stay in, like on Easter.  We'll se how that works.

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@MikeMelga: I talked to a person working at the Pettenkofer Institute in Munich today.

He said their lab handles approx. 50% of the Bavarian COVID-19 tests, and we discussed if the numbers really are peaking/on the decline, if there will be a second wave etc.

His take: The ratio of positive to negative results has not changed. If the infection percentage were really going down, he would have expected a change in said ratio of test results.

What do you think?

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@Metall, they look independent metrics. My understanding is that the ratio of positive to negative results should be dominated by misinterpretation of symptoms.

Or let's put it in another perspective: why would you take a test?

A) you have more serious symptoms ( high fever, difficult in breathing, etc)

B ) you were close to someone who had a positive test

C) you were close to someone who had a positive test and you have more serious symptoms afterwards

D) you have very mild symptoms which could also be flu

E) you came from an infected area outside the country

 

Option A) is completely independent of infection percentage.

My understanding of how this is handled in Bavaria is that option B ) rarely occurs. E.g. my wife works in a floor where 2 others colleagues were infected. Nobody was tested. But a 3rd one got it, showed symptoms and got tested (Option C) ).

Option C) is mostly independent of infection percentage.

Option D) is irrelevant because they won't test you.

Option E) is irrelevant because you have to self quarantine, nobody is tested at arrival, AFAIK.

 

So we have 2 cases, A and C, which are mostly independent from infection percentage/rate (R).

Two other, D and E, are irrelevant.

And then we have another case, B, which could be impacted by R, but that is not that common in Bavaria.

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12 hours ago, Elljay said:

@MikeMelga Yesterday was a holiday in Sweden, so it's a long weekend for many. Numbers might go up next week. Citizens have been asked to stay in, like on Easter.  We'll se how that works.

 

Do you know if the institutions reporting cases and the institutions reporting deaths are different?

 

I use worldometers.info and noticed that there is not much of a reduction in new cases over the past few days, but a reduction in deaths.    Is it possible that some sort of Coroner or Medical Examiner who is not working weekends and holidays needs to sign off on death certificates while new case reports come from reporting sources which do operate on weekends?

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

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Since the restaurants have been allowed to reopen, a case in Niedersachsen has been reported: 

https://rp-online.de/panorama/coronavirus/nach-restaurantbesuch-offenbar-corona-ausbruch-in-niedersachsen_aid-51283277

 

Quote

 

During a restaurant visit in Lower Saxony, seven people were apparently infected with the coronavirus. "The infections are presumably related to a visit to a restaurant", the Leer district announced on Friday.

 

These new cases had led to "preventive home quarantine" already being ordered for at least 50 people. Further test results are still pending. NDR 1 Lower Saxony had reported the cases. According to the station, these would be the first known cases of this kind since the reopening of the gastronomy sector.

 

According to the health department, this is not an isolated case with only few contacts. "It is an outbreak with several infected people at once and many contacts." They say the follow-up will be equally complex. The seven positive findings, which are related, were reported to the health department from Tuesday to Friday. According to the district of Leer, no confirmed new infections had been reported for more than a week. According to NDR 1 Lower Saxony, it was still unclear whether visitors or personnel had not followed the rules.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

I certainly won't be visiting any restaurants any time soon.

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24 minutes ago, bramble said:

I certainly won't be visiting any restaurants any time soon.

 

 

- have to agree with you there, Bramble!

Whilst I realise that restaurants have particularly been suffering during the epidemic, I am totally sceptical about them being permitted to re-open already.

Yes, it is good that they have to take contact details of all guests now, but as far as I am concerned, the risk of contracting something is still too great.

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29 minutes ago, bramble said:

I certainly won't be visiting any restaurants any time soon.

 

The last sentence in bold is really the clincher.  It's bad enough to buy food in a store and you have no idea if the workers wash their hands regularly, or what they touch before handling other things that will make it into your home, etc.  But you do still have a degree of control over what makes it into your mouth, and you can correct a lot of oversights or plain negligence by staff on your own once you're back home. I don't have the plan to put my life in the hands of gastro workers during corona.  I only trust myself and my own standards of cleanliness in times like these.

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1 hour ago, robinson100 said:

Yes, it is good that they have to take contact details of all guests now

Such a rule must vary by region?  We ate outside last night at a restaurant near our home in the Altstadt in Konstanz. The tables in the square were spaced far apart.  No contact details at all were taken. 

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Just now, BethAnnBitt said:

Such a rule must vary by region?  We ate outside last night at a restaurant near our home in the Altstadt in Konstanz.  The tables in the square were spaced far  apart.  No contact details at all were taken. 

 

That`s interesting, and at the same time even more worrying, don`t you think?

 

A friend of mine runs a Biergarten - normally!

With all the rules and regulations set out by the vaious authorities, she is not able to open up at all - they can only have a limited number of guests, sat far appart from each other, contact details of each person/group have to be taken, etc, etc, etc...

Since her Biergarten has options to approach it from four sides - three by bike/foot, and one by road, there is no way she can "police" the number of people entering, and thus has no chance of opening up until the rules change again.

At the moment she is relying on take-away service to keep things running.

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1 hour ago, dessa_dangerous said:

But you do still have a degree of control over what makes it into your mouth, and you can correct a lot of oversights or plain negligence by staff on your own once you're back home.

 

I have the impression that many people are worried about what they are eating as much or more than what they are breathing in.   

 

With that in mind, it would seem like a prudent move for restaurants to offer apertifs under the guise that a bit of alcohol might offer some protection against the virus.   For the very squeamish, shots of tequilla or vodka might help them relax.   

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Yes, interesting @robinson100. Restaurants in Konstanz were open and people were both inside and outside. Of course, without the Swiss being allowed over, and tourism down, as well as spacing rules, things were not crowded as they normally would be even though it was a gorgeous evening.  We would not consider eating inside anywhere, but outside at the place we chose things seemed well organized and safe. 🤷‍♀️ But now I am now really curious about the rules on contact information.  

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29 minutes ago, balticus said:

I have the impression that many people are worried about what they are eating as much or more than what they are breathing in.   

 

Whatever, I read yesterday, that German scientists found the virus in a mother's breast milk:

https://www.n-tv.de/wissen/Forscher-finden-Coronavirus-in-Muttermilch-article21798112.html

Quote

 

For the first time, German researchers are able to identify the genetic material of the coronavirus in the breast milk of an infected woman. However, it is still unclear whether her child, who is also ill, was infected during breastfeeding - and also whether transmission by this route is possible at all.

 

Virologists from Ulm have for the first time ever detected the corona virus in the breast milk of a woman suffering from Covid-19. The scientists led by Jan Münch and Rüdiger Groß from the University of Ulm also found that her baby was infected with the virus. However, it is not yet clear whether the child was really infected via breast milk. The researchers published their results in the scientific journal "The Lancet".

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

Read the complete article via the link above.

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33 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Yes, interesting @robinson100. Restaurants in Konstanz were open and people were both inside and outside. Of course, without the Swiss being allowed over, and tourism down, as well as spacing rules, things were not crowded as they normally would be even though it was a gorgeous evening.  We would not consider eating inside anywhere, but outside at the place we chose things seemed well organized and safe. 🤷‍♀️ But now I am now really curious about the rules on contact information.  

 

Here are the rules for your area, which are the same as everywhere else:

https://www.konstanz.de/service/pressereferat/pressemitteilungen/regeln+fuer+speisewirtschaften

 

Quote

 

Hygiene and safety measures must be observed during the operation of the food service industry. For example, the tables must be arranged indoors and outdoors at a distance of at least 1.50 metres. In addition, a minimum distance of 1.50 metres must be maintained between all those present in the entire restaurant. Seats at sufficient distance to adjacent seats at another table (e.g. when chairs are arranged back to back) must also be aligned with this aspect. Only members of the same household and of another household may sit at a table. This means that the contact restrictions to be observed in public space apply.
 
Furthermore, guest data (name, date and time of the visit, availability) must be recorded and stored for four weeks. In case of refusal, the guest may not be admitted and served. Guests must also be assigned a seat. Consumption of food and beverages while standing is not permitted. And finally, employees must wear a mouth-and-nose cover in all rooms with customer contact.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

 

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I went to the Hirschgarten beer garden in the week, it was fenced off so there was only one entrance where you had to complete a paper registration form and hand it in as you entered. The tables were well spaced out and you had to wear a mask when purchasing anything or using the toilet, all well controlled. We took a picnic and the beer was wonderful.

Pens were freely provided to complete the forms but no control or disinfection after use!

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