5,107 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, balticus said:

 

In my opinion, worldometer, or some other website, needs to start start tracking death from all causes in every country because policy will be a matter of tradeoffs.    

 

If society shuts down too long resulting in unslaughtered livestock, unmiliked cows, and unpicked fruits and vegetables,  there will be  a food crisis.   If the economy is damaged too much and there is mass unemployment + bankruptcies, we will see social unrest.   

I couldn’t agree more. Short term if we have to put up with all the restrictions in the interests of damage limitation to our health because of this shitty crisis- yes.

 

But if it goes on too long, I dread to think of the health implications ( including psychological stress ) of those needing other treatments, the economic destruction worldwide, deaths from other causes, suicides, mass unemployment etc.

When you see, for example , those pictures of the underclasses in India being forced to leave their areas of abode to go back to basically nowhere.

 

By the way, this post is not about Trump or Boris.. just my general Weltanschauung.

It is not even a particularly deep or clever post.. just, jeez, this is awful..😟

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27 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

This might explain why the UK as an island is still struggling to get their Covid under control 
 

 

via twitter

https://twitter.com/prisonplanet/status/1257000606960680960?s=21

 

 

 

Yes, it is unfathomable·. Here in Greece - no flights to Germany, for example, till - at the earliest - 15th May and then to be reassessed.

The stuff of nightmares.

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I can`t fathom out where 100,000 people would be able to go into lockdown....

 

Wonder what the situation is like at the ports?

 

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21 minutes ago, john g. said:

Yes, it is unfathomable·. Here in Greece - no flights to Germany, for example, till - at the earliest - 15th May and then to be reassessed.

The stuff of nightmares.

17 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

I can`t fathom out where 100,000 people would be able to go into lockdown...

 

Wonder what the situation is like at the ports?

 

Isn't prison planet a conspiracy theory site?

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8 minutes ago, Feierabend said:

Isn't prison planet a conspiracy theory site?

 

In case anyone is unaware, this is all you need to know about Alex Jones / InfoWars / Prison Planet / Paul Joseph Watson

 

 

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2 hours ago, katheliz said:

I don't read it as you do, @jeba. I interpret Melba's remark this way: If those who might die have already died, then there isn't anyone left who is in danger.

Well, at my age and with my co-morbidities, I'm one of those who could easily die. And I don't feel alone. That's why I responded as I did.

I hear what you´re saying. But Mike´s message is still true: if they go the herd immunity route it´s inevitable that a high number of high risk people will die. It may well be anyway that Sweden is just getting there faster in one wave so-to-speak than the rest of Europe in two - unless there will be a vaccine it will end in herd immunity. I doubt it will be possible to permanently keep the R number below 1 for economic as well as social reasons as you can´t keep countries in lockdown forever. It´s a bit like it must have been for a group of Neanderthals trapped in a cave by a sabretooth waiting in front of it. They can´t stay in their cave forever.

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35 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

I can`t fathom out where 100,000 people would be able to go into lockdown...

 

Wonder what the situation is like at the ports?

 

If we‘re using „ fathom „ here, I guess they will have to end up under water somewhere!😂🙏🏻

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40 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

I can`t fathom out where 100,000 people would be able to go into lockdown...

 

From what I've read, a lot of people are coming in from Eastern Europe as pickers so the British farmers can get their harvests to the consumers.  I've also read that these people are thoroughly checked before they leave their home country.

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@ John - oh dear!

 

@ Tap - thanks for a sensible reply! Still, somebody deemed to be fit to leave one country is not necessarily fit to enter another....

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3 hours ago, Tap said:

From what I've read, a lot of people are coming in from Eastern Europe as pickers so the British farmers can get their harvests to the consumers.  I've also read that these people are thoroughly checked before they leave their home country.

Yeah right, and the first weeks wages goes to the bent doctor who signed their clean bill of health certificate.

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29 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Yeah right, and the first weeks wages goes to the bent doctor who signed their clean bill of health certificate.

yeah... but at least the cabbages are being picked.. and not left to fester like some cabbages here  on TT

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10 hours ago, Tap said:

From what I've read, a lot of people are coming in from Eastern Europe as pickers so the British farmers can get their harvests to the consumers.  I've also read that these people are thoroughly checked before they leave their home country.

 

If security and safety are even remotely relevant, why can't some of the hoards of recently unemployed be deployed as pickers?

 

Western societies have gotten to the point that people performing office jobs, many of which are absolutely pointless,   (see this https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466958-bullshit-jobs ), believe themselves above doing anything remotely manual.     If things get severe enough, this will change, especially if people can eat on the job.  

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2 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

... why can't some of the hoards of recently unemployed be deployed as pickers?

 

 

 

- almost certainly for the same reason that Germany still has to ship in harvesters - the locals are too weak, get back problems after a couple of hours work, and are just not up to the job.

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11 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

If security and safety are even remotely relevant, why can't some of the hoards of recently unemployed be deployed as pickers?

 

Western societies have gotten to the point that people performing office jobs, many of which are absolutely pointless,   (see this https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466958-bullshit-jobs ), believe themselves above doing anything remotely manual.     If things get severe enough, this will change, especially if people can eat on the job.  

 

Be the change you want to see. Go! Pick vegetables and fruit!

 

You must be able to take a vacation or a leave of absence from your desk job to do it.

 

Me? I'm self-employed and can't shut my operations down, but you go on and show us all. Post pictures.

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5 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

 

- almost certainly for the same reason that Germany still has to ship in harvesters - the locals are too weak, get back problems after a couple of hours work, and are just not up to the job.

 

People in the UK and Germany have the choice to reject that type of work - at least right now they do.   

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2 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

People in the UK and Germany have the choice to reject that type of work - at least right now they do.   

 

Absolutely.  Many of the recently unemployed are too old, not in shape, back and knee problems, would be too slow for these jobs and not last very long. And of course it's also a question how far can you expect people to relocate in order to do a farm job.  And what happens with their unemployment?  Would someone here take a job that pays less than you are getting in unemployment?

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10 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

Absolutely.  Many of the recently unemployed are too old, not in shape, back and knee problems, would be too slow for these jobs and not last very long. And of course it's also a question how far can you expect people to relocate in order to do a farm job.  And what happens with their unemployment?  Would someone here take a job that pays less than you are getting in unemployment?

 

True - there are also people in their twenties and thirties who went to the fitness studio, jogged, or otherwise exercised several times per week pre-COVID, who no longer have jobs.  

 

Something could be worked out with respect to unemployment benefits since securing the food supply is pretty important.   My guess is that some people would not work the fields even if their pay would be double their current unemployment benefits.  

 

Just out of curiousity, in Iceland, who does the jobs nobody wants to do?

 

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I wanted to do a farm job as something part time or as a Minijob, but I couldn’t find anywhere I could drive a half hour to. Also I really need my health insurance covered since I’m a freelancer. I wouldn’t mind the extra manual work because I use that for my exercise, but I’m thinking it just might be too much on my mid-40s 55 kg 5’2” frame. Before the crisis I was doing kitchen work as an extra job and it hurt at first, but I got used to it. 

 

I’m thinking unemployment might be better for in in addition to what little freelance English teaching I have left at this point. But I am curious about farm work to get out in the sunshine and get some exercise. It also seems safer than other jobs I’ve seen (supermarkets, kitchen help in care homes). Any info?

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