6,203 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Dembo said:

Trump wants everyone to believe that it's all the WHO's fault, so he doesn't have to take responsibility.

 

 

No disagreement with that. I just hope and trust that when all this is over (though not sure if over will include the end of a

the predicted1930s like depression approaching) that actions will be put in place to ensure it can never happen again.

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29 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

No disagreement with thoat. I just hope and trust that when all this is over (though not sure if over will include the end of a

the predicted1930s like depression approaching) that actions will be put in place to ensure it can never happen again.

 

Better get yourself a garden eh?

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1 hour ago, Dembo said:

Everything's simple with hindsight. The point is it's national leaders who are responsible to protect the health and well being of their citizens; that should be their most important priority. The WHO's role is to advise, but there's nothing that says national leaders have to do what the WHO says. What was happening in Wuhan was all over the news in January; it was clear to everyone what could be coming and that means national leaders could have acted much quicker. 

The WHO did fail.Trump is using it to deflect from him but they failed badly.

"It`s your only job" is apt when aimed at the WHO in this instance.

 

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Trump called out the China Virus at his State of the Union speech when Nancy Pelosi was ripping up his speech. He also shut the borders before anyone thought saving thousands of lives, which Sleepy Joe called "xenophpobic". 

 

Here is a montage of what the MSM said during that time:

 

He has absolute power over all States as per the Constitution.

 

"Six o clock can be deadly".

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jeremytwo said:

Gates was a frequent visitor to Epstein Island.

1 hour ago, jeremytwo said:

 

Untrue. WHO is a misnamed private corporation based in Geneva Switzerland. Its 2nd largest donor is Bill Gates. His father was a very unsavoury character:

 

 

 

Steve reveals who Bill Gates really is at the end.

Will you stop bringing your conspiracy bullshit into this thread ffs.

You lot can`t even make your mind up.

Chinese did it.

NWO did it.

5G did it.

Democratic hoax.

At least make your fucking whackjob mind up which conspiracy you think is the right one.

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1 minute ago, jeremytwo said:

He also shut the borders before anyone thought saving thousands of lives,

I`d love to see your timeline on this.

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4 minutes ago, jeremytwo said:

 

He has absolute power over all States as per the Constitution.

 

 

 

No. This is wrong.

 

Read something.

 

Quote

federal statutes give the president substantial authority to issue nationwide directives aimed at stopping the spread of the coronavirus between states if the president determines that the states aren’t doing enough to protect the public. But although he does have broad legal power to protect public health in the face of conflicting state directives—power he has largely refused to use—he does not have reciprocal legal power to compromise public health by overriding state efforts to protect state populations.

Nor can he order private companies to reverse corporate decisions to shutter their own operations. Say he believes the economy needs a robust hospitality industry more than thousands of individuals need their lives spared by minimized exposure to the coronavirus; that still doesn’t give him power to order Disney World to open its doors.

To understand why, let’s return to a few constitutional basics.

First, the reason the president has broad national powers to protect public health in the face of a pandemic is Congress. The Constitution gives the president the power to execute the laws, among other things, but those laws are generally passed by Congress. For example, in 1944, Congress passed the Public Health Service Act, which gives the executive branch certain powers for use in preventing the introduction, transmission, and spread of diseases from foreign countries into the United States and also between the states. Without congressional authority, the president’s ability to make laws unilaterally is limited—it happens to some degree through executive orders and also by virtue of regulations enacted by administrative agencies. But agencies get their powers from Congress, as well, even though they are headed by presidential appointees, and thus answerable to the president. There is no “total” authority assigned to any branch of government in the Constitution—and that’s by design. The Framers of the Constitution rejected an absolute monarchy; one doesn’t need to be a constitutional scholar to accept that foundational proposition as near-gospel when it comes to American political theory.

Second, under the 10th Amendment, “the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” What this “residual” power means is that the federal government only gets the powers spelled out for it in the Constitution—the rest of the people’s power to self-govern remains in their own hands or in the hands of the state governments. The 10th Amendment is accordingly where the so-called “police power” comes from—the power to manage public health, safety, and even morality. It generally belongs to the states. Individual states have their own organized police forces, drinking-water sanitation programs, and yes—quarantines during pandemics.

The federal government has successfully exercised preemptive police power in certain areas, to be sure—such as regulation of food, drugs, and the environment—but the Supreme Court has snubbed other federal attempts to supersede state police power. In New York v. United States, for example, the court in 1992 struck down on 10th Amendment grounds a federal law requiring states to dispose of radioactive waste within their borders.

Third, and relatedly, even if President Trump were to use his statutory power to preempt state quarantines in favor of a national program aimed at protecting the country from COVID-19 (which he has thus far declined to do), the Supreme Court could conceivably strike down the effort—even though Congress gave him that power by statute, presumably pursuant to its own constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. A conceivable rationale for constitutionally dismantling a federal quarantine would be the states’ 10th Amendment police power. But a president who “forced” the states to dismantle their quarantine programs would be acting without congressional authority altogether. Without any law to enforce, Trump’s Article II power to execute the laws would not save him.

Fourth, it’s impossible to imagine how President Trump would enforce such a lawless directive, anyway. The Posse Comitatus Act and various Department of Defense regulations forbid the president from using the U.S. military for law-enforcement purposes absent congressional authorization. (The U.S. Coast Guard is an exception.) So Trump’s commander-in-chief authority doesn’t get him the absolute power his rhetoric claims, either. By the same token, in its most important case on this subject to date, the Supreme Court in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer rejected President Harry Truman’s attempt to seize and operate the nation’s private steel mills by executive order. Despite the need for steel to fight the Korean War, the court held that the president lacked the authority to take possession of private property—a co-opting of private industry that Trump’s I’m in charge of everything power to reopen the economy would mistakenly encompass, as well.

 

If you even think about coming at me on this, be prepared for the dressing down you deserve as a know-nothing follower of crap cults and propaganda. I will not have some halfwit imbecile shitting on the rule of law when so many are fighting so hard for it. Your information is nothing more than a pile of shit. You know nothing and that is why even your own family doesn't follow your health advice. Come at me on this topic again. I dare you.

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

I`d love to see your timeline on this.

 

Happy to do so little Keleth. Careful with that keyboard...

 

Image

 

Infectious disease expert Dr James Lawler, who worked under Obama quipped 'great understatements in history: Wuhan... "Just a bad flu season,' lumping it with Napoleon's retreat from Russia as 'a little stroll gone bad' and Hiroshima being 'a bad summer heat wave'

 

 

 

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From that same coronavirus article on Axios.

 

Quote

Feb. 24: President Trump tweets: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

 

Quote

March 9: Trump tweets: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”

 

Quote

March 13: Trump declares a national emergency, freeing up $50 billion in federal funds for states and territories.

 

What the fuck did that shit-gibbon do in February? Fuck all. 

 

P.S. Do not post half the information trying to hide your bullshit. We are all fucking on to you.

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5 hours ago, keith2011 said:

they even criticised Trump for his travel ban!

 

 

Hmm.  I criticized Trump for his travel ban(s) as well, for what I think are similar reasons:  not that there should not have been travel bans, but the "bans" weren't really bans, and they were too little/too late.

 

By the time Trump implemented the China travel ban, there was already community spread in the US.  So, too late.  It also wasn't really a ban.  I read something yesterday or the day before that more than 40,000 people came to the US from China after the "ban" was put in place.  So, too little.

 

The Europe travel ban was also too little/too late.  According to what I have read, the vast majority of CV in New York was brought from Europe, and again, the "ban" wasn't really a ban.  Not only that, the restrictions were so poorly implemented and so poorly communicated that Americans and US PRs visiting Europe panicked, thinking they would be shut out, thus triggering a mass influx of people who arrived unscreened and free to return to "normal" lives (and spread the virus).

 

These were my criticisms, and I believe also were the criticisms from WHO and some others.  I am not paranoid or partisan enough to throw around words like "xenophobic" in my criticism like some of the partisans do; I don't believe that element was there.  It is crystal clear to me though that the Trump administration (as well as other nations) did not take the potential for a pandemic seriously when they should have; thus, the "bans" were merely for show. They accomplished nothing useful.

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The WHO, should have been on top of this, they should have had people in Wuhan, they probably did, looking at the spread rate - once it became clear that the virus was a killer and it could spread very easily, it was kinda hard to detect. The WHO should have asked countries around the world to stop world travel. I do not remember that on the TV.

 

Having sad all of that, we should remember this virus has come very quick, its very hard to understand something and know what to do when things happen so quick. Not really sure no matter how much/how little money you spend that anybody would have called  this right.

 

Trump is obviously trying to deflect the blame from his own  mistakes, but this has not happened in a big way for more than 100 years, there are no procedures on this.

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11 minutes ago, yesterday said:

The WHO, should have been on top of this, they should have had people in Wuhan, they probably did, looking at the spread rate - once it became clear that the virus was a killer and it could spread very easily, it was kinda hard to detect. The WHO should have asked countries around the world to stop world travel. I do not remember that on the TV.

 

Basically what WHO said was that by the time travel bans were implemented, it was already too late.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

 

11 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Having sad all of that, we should remember this virus has come very quick, its very hard to understand something and know what to do when things happen so quick. Not really sure no matter how much/how little money you spend that anybody would have called  this right.

 

Yeah, pretty much ^^this.  Even though it has been well-understood by scientists and health officials for decades that this would happen (and that the origin would likely be China), no one else took the risk seriously, so the world was unprepared.

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we're going to let jeremy spout his shite unless it's life-threatening, so get used to it.  I just work here.

 

My suggestion: has been edited because oscar below has a much better solution.  Don't argue, just put him on ignore.

 

This is also not a place to discuss this, just a public service announcement.  That's it.  I'm sorry about it too, but that's it.

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9 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

Ignore him

No do as @dessa_dangerous says, show him were the error of thinking is - that's the whole point of this site, to debate and provide greater clarity on what people write here 

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22 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

Ignore him

 

That will only work if everyone does it except for his 2 buddies who won't.

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