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We feed the neighbor´s cat a few days per week. He just drops by. Since a first documented case a few weeks ago, we just feed him but dont let him in and especially we don´t pat him. Not only because he could be infected, but especially because an infected person could have deposited droplets on his fur.

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2 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

 

I can understand that you don't like the Conservatives or PM Johnson but don't take leave of your senses. 

 

I don't know the guy, but I do know that politicians are not the critical personnel in this crisis.

 

There is a leadership job to be done, but it absolutely doesn't need to be him doing it. Politicians come and go. Another one might be better, not especially likely to be worse.

 

The basic idea that people are equal and should be treated so, is dumb? Wow. Just wow.

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Something quite remarkable, Portugal seems to have reached the peak of deaths already some days ago and daily values have been around 20 for some 11 days.

This peak (to be confirmed) was reached just 2 weeks after the first death and 3 weeks after lockdown! Notice that the lockdown was done quite early compared to other countries. Well before any death.

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@yesterday 

 

This article is irresponsible. I mentioned it upthread. Cats naturally have FCoV (about 90% of them do). The Coronavirus in cats has the ability to mutate to FIP. I had a kitten that died from FIP. All of my cats have FCoV. I’m not an expert, but I did a lot of reading on Coronaviruses a few years ago when I lost my kitten. 

 

They need to do more research on this Coronavirus vs. whether it affects humans to cats for example. This article is irresponsible. Neil Pederson https://sockfip.org/ has done a lot of research into FIP and a lot of knowledge about how this affects cats. Strangely enough, Susan Gingrich (Newt’s sister) also has a lot of info on this. 

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On 4/5/2020, 12:59:19, MikeMelga said:

While infected numbers might be wrong by a factor of 20, deaths can't be wrong by that much, not even close! Depending on the country, I guess between 5% and 100%, but not 2000%.

BTW, in Portugal ALL deaths from similar complications are tested. There I think the inaccuracy is well below 10%.

 

man

look at this  http://demo.istat.it/bilmens2018gen/index_e.html

shows that in 2018 feb/mar about 114,000 died in Italy from all causes,  The official figure for deas from coronavirus is about 16000 at the moment

 

If you do not test all or most of the deaths, you really have no idea what the real number of deaths you have from coronavirus.  Therefore making predictions based confirmed deaths from coronavirus is very speculative

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45 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

@yesterday 

 

This article is irresponsible. I mentioned it upthread. Cats naturally have FCoV (about 90% of them do). The Coronavirus in cats has the ability to mutate to FIP. I had a kitten that died from FIP. All of my cats have FCoV. I’m not an expert, but I did a lot of reading on Coronaviruses a few years ago when I lost my kitten. 

 

They need to do more research on this Coronavirus vs. whether it affects humans to cats for example. This article is irresponsible. Neil Pederson https://sockfip.org/ has done a lot of research into FIP and a lot of knowledge about how this affects cats. Strangely enough, Susan Gingrich (Newt’s sister) also has a lot of info on this. 

 

I know its speculative, I was speculating.

 

I am not saying it will affect cats and dogs -- I hope very much it will not, it would cause a lot of worry for people with pets, but I think we should at least try to understand what can possibly happen, so that are in the best position to know what to do.

 

But it has been spreed  from humans to tigers, why can tigers not give it back to humans ?, Cats and Tigers are genetically very  similar.

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

man

look at this  http://demo.istat.it/bilmens2018gen/index_e.html

shows that in 2018 feb/mar about 114,000 died in Italy from all causes,  The official figure for deas from coronavirus is about 16000 at the moment

 

If you do not test all or most of the deaths, you really have no idea what the real number of deaths you have from coronavirus.  Therefore making predictions based confirmed deaths from coronavirus is very speculative

Don´t be ridiculous! You don´t test ALL deaths. You test people which died with respiratory complications like the ones Corona causes! Are you going to test car accident victims for example?

Your logic is extremely flawed.

Example: in 2017 in Italy there were 13823 deaths related with pneumonia and influenza. Let´s assume those were concentrated in 6 months. This means 77 deaths per day. Italy is not even in a peak time of the year for influenza, and they had over 900 deaths by corona. So those 77 deaths are a small percentage comparably to the current corona issue.

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8 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Don´t be ridiculous! You don´t test ALL deaths. You test people which died with respiratory complications like the ones Corona causes! Are you going to test car accident victims for example?

Your logic is extremely flawed.

Example: in 2017 in Italy there were 13823 deaths related with pneumonia and influenza. Let´s assume those were concentrated in 6 months. This means 77 deaths per day. Italy is not even in a peak time of the year for influenza, and they had over 900 deaths by corona. So those 77 deaths are a small percentage comparably to the current corona issue.

 

accident victims for example, how do you know that a person was driving to hospital, because they had a high fever,  so they wanted to be tested, then had an accident because they not well, that driving accident would not be treated as a CV death !

If a person falls down the stairs, because they had a high fever, and dies that would not be a CV death either

 

fact is there are countless ways a person can die, which may have been due to CV, but if you do not test - you just do not know ,  - thus making the stats un-reliable

 

 

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34 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

I know its speculative, I was speculating.

 

I am not saying it will affect cats and dogs -- I hope not very much it will not, it would cause a lot of worry for people with pets, but I think we should at least try to understand what can possibly happen, so that are in the best position to know what to do.

 

But it has been spreed  from humans to tigers, why can tigers not give it back to humans ?, Cats and Tigers are genetically very  similar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but it spread from bats (or so they think) to pangolins (whatever they are) and then to humans. I think adding the fact that it could possibly spread to animals from humans is a whole other issue that really needs to be researched before they put out articles like this. To me the article reads that the tigers and lions got COVID from their keeper, but there is no science at all. Animal Coronaviruses are a totally different ball game. I mean this happened within days and they are posting articles saying the tigers are infected in like two days. Yet, they took a while before declaring that COVID is zoonotic. This is going to cause (more) fear and animals are going to be given up in shelters because of this irresponsible article. 

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4 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

It will be good if its done slowly, not sure about relaxing the borders to personal and non essential business travel - yet - but letting the smaller business start to open up again will be a start. I think if people out in public were required to wear masks to start with in case they infect others it would be seen as a bit safer, and may allow more places to get their businesses going.  

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16 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

 

Austria's saying the same thing, but it seems a bit more concrete:

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article207065749/Wie-Sebastian-Kurz-die-Auferstehung-Oesterreichs-plant.html

 

They already have a rule about wearing masks in shops, and would extend it to cover public transport. The problem in Germany is going to be the supply of masks, unless they've suddenly made 80 million odd in the last couple of weeks.

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Since I live in Heidelberg, I found this article remarkable:

"Why are there fewer deaths in Germany than in other countries? In an interview with the FAZ, Hans-Georg Kräusslich, head of the Department of Virology at the University Hospital in Heidelberg, provides some answers. Germany has learned from other countries and found out that the coronavirus has two phases. In the first phase, the patients are still fine, but after about a week, the health condition rapidly deteriorates. "However, we assume that we should identify the patients at the beginning or even before the deterioration (Boris Johnson?) and admit them to hospital," said the virologist from Heidelberg. In order to notice a deterioration in time, additional measures are taken in addition to the daily report to the health authorities. Doctors in protective clothing, drive to patients' homes five or six days after they have become ill with Covid-19. Patients are called every day or the "Corona Taxi" comes to visit them."

Also the NYT mentions it.

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3 minutes ago, SusieT said:

It will be good if its done slowly, not sure about relaxing the borders to personal and non essential business travel - yet - but letting the smaller business start to open up again will be a start. I think if people out in public were required to wear masks to start with in case they infect others it would be seen as a bit safer, and may allow more places to get their businesses going.  

I am still skeptic about masks and gloves. Most people don´t know how to use them and they might have a false sense of safety.

 

I have several doctors and nurses in the family and the oldest of them said that when doctors started using gloves in hospitals in the 70-80 (Portugal) the cross contamination increased because doctors, instead of being careful and keeping washing hands, they would just be moving around with the same pair of gloves, touching everything, including themselves.

 

People will reuse masks, gloves, they will touch their faces, readjust the mask, etc, with the false feeling of safety. We are not an Asian country, where there is such culture and they know how to use it properly.

 

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What happens if you sneeze into your mask? Do you walk around with snot in your face for the rest of the day, or do you take it off and do without? Disgusting, but a serious point.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Dembo said:

What happens if you sneeze into your mask? Do you walk around with snot in your face for the rest of the day, or do you take it off and do without? Disgusting, but a serious point.

 

 

You dont... you hold your nostrils shut and Sneeze through your arse... avoiding Sharts if possible.. 

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