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Because the UK is about 2 weeks behind the rest of europe... with it being an island.. I assume fewer infected people crossing that border

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48 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

This is frightening. Concluding that they think it is airborne. It’s starting to look that way. They seemed to follow all the rules. Yes, the group rule was not followed, but let’s put it into perspective. Let’s say you are following all the rules on an S-Bahn. You can fit 60 people in there with social distancing. People are using sanitizer and covering their mouths and not hugging. Normal commute with fewer people. I find that scary. 

 

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak#null

 

I wonder whether talking has a similar effect to singing (could taking deep breaths during singing also have been a factor here?) and whether there's any difference in the production of aerosols between people breathing through their nose and through their mouth.

 

Found these:

Quote

Here we show that the rate of particle emission during normal human speech is positively correlated with the loudness (amplitude) of vocalization, ranging from approximately 1 to 50 particles per second (0.06 to 3 particles per cm3) for low to high amplitudes, regardless of the language spoken (English, Spanish, Mandarin, or Arabic). Furthermore, a small fraction of individuals behaves as “speech superemitters,” consistently releasing an order of magnitude more particles than their peers.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z

 

For nasal breathing, the maximum propagation distance and derived velocity were 0.6 m and 1.4 m/s, respectively. The maximum 2-D area of dissemination and derived expansion rate were 0.11 m2 and 0.16 m2/s, respectively. Similarly, for mouth breathing, the maximum propagation distance and derived velocity were 0.8 m and 1.3 m/s, respectively. The maximum 2-D area of dissemination and derived expansion rate were 0.18 m2 and 0.17 m2/s, respectively.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3613375/

 

 

So perhaps breathing through one's nose and not talking around others, especially not loudly, might do no harm.

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6 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I just had a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Why is the death toll in the Netherlands so high -almost 900 compared to UK 1200 ? I mean, Holland has 17m inhabitants, the UK 66m.

Do they ignore all rules?

They are not making any good attempt of lockdown. They have a Calvinist mindset, predestination, so they think that if god wants them to die, they will die. Even younger godless generations have that mindset, although ignoring where it comes from.

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9 minutes ago, oscar 63 said:

covid19-fact-or-fiction-airborne.jpg

 

 

Funny that comes from a "Fact check site".   But here it is what the WHO site says, notice how carefully written is the answer and how it does not really answer the question:

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

 

The virus that causes COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or speaks. These droplets are too heavy to hang in the air. They quickly fall on floors or surfaces. 

You can be infected by breathing in the virus if you are within 1 metre of a person who has COVID-19, or by touching a contaminated surface and then touching your eyes, nose or mouth before washing your hands.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I just had a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Why is the death toll in the Netherlands so high -almost 900 compared to UK 1200 ? I mean, Holland has 17m inhabitants, the UK 66m.

Do they ignore all rules?

Maybe because they also followed the stupid herd immunity idea:

 

 

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8 hours ago, arunadasi said:

 

 

This is why I said a few weeks ago that a (successful) lock-down in India is unimaginable. If you have not been there it is impossible to even imagine the crowding and the physical closeness of people. Also, so many small traders live from one day's earnings to the next and they survive by being out in public -- rickshaw drivers at the forefront. And many people in the city have no real homes, they come from the country and simply crowd together in dorms, leaving families at home. Then there are areas like Kamathipura, the red light district of Mumbai. Who will care for the thousands of prostitutes there and in other megacities; certainly not the pimps and madams; they are maligned and mistreated even in ordinary times.
I can imagine it spreading like wildfire. Luckily that is not the case as yet.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, arunadasi said:

 

 

This is why I said a few weeks ago that a (successful) lock-down in India is unimaginable. If you have not been there it is impossible to even imagine the crowding and the physical closeness of people. Also, so many small traders live from one day's earnings to the next and they survive by being out in public -- rickshaw drivers at the forefront. And many people in the city have no real homes, they come from the country and simply crowd together in dorms, leaving families at home. Then there are areas like Kamathipura, the red light district of Mumbai. Who will care for the thousands of prostitutes there and in other megacities; certainly not the pimps and madams; they are maligned and mistreated even in ordinary times.
I can imagine it spreading like wildfire. Luckily that is not the case as yet.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly what I said, confirmed: India's poor flee in masses

 


 

Quote

 

The grim scenes playing out across the nation of 1.3 billion people are some of the worst across the world since the virus crisis shut down much of the global economy. In India, it’s brought back memories of the mass migration sparked by deadly religious riots when the subcontinent was split up after the British left in 1947. These days, however, the divide is largely between those in India with money and those who live month by month, or even day by day.


 

 

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1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I just had a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Why is the death toll in the Netherlands so high -almost 900 compared to UK 1200 ? I mean, Holland has 17m inhabitants, the UK 66m.

Do they ignore all rules?

 

If you sort by deaths per 1m you see that NL, Belgium and Switzerland are all pretty high up and these aren't countries that are being talked about a great deal as being badly affected - because they're small. NL has 50 deaths per million; Germany 7. 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Fuckin hell. Just stay away from each other. Couldn't be simpler.

I´m afraid that´s too simple. The jury is still out on whether or not the virus is airborne (or to what extent). There are scientists (e. g. Osterholm) claiming that it may already be transmitted through normal breathing - even if you don´t speak or cough - and that it may remain floating around for hours (which isn´t what Drosten seems to think). My guess is that this  is probably not a simple black and white dichotomy but some sort of risk-continuum. If Osterholm is right than you wouldn´t only have to stay 2 meters apart from the next person but rather enter their space a few hourse later (unless you´re outdoors) to be 100% safe. From what I read it´s clear that the virus can persist for hours floating around in tiny droplets. These droplets were created arteficially though and not exhaled by humans - therefore, this may be of questionable relevance. It boggles my mind that this question hasn´t been answered yet.

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3 minutes ago, jeba said:

These droplets were created arteficially though and not exhaled by humans - therefore, this may be of questionable relevance. It boggles my mind that this question hasn´t been answered yet.

There is more money to be made on the discovery of a cure/vaccine than on investigating how it is transmitted...

And between cure and vaccine, there is much more money to be made on a cure...

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2 minutes ago, jeba said:

I´m afraid that´s too simple. The jury is still out on whether or not the virus is airborne (or to what extent). There are scientists (e. g. Osterholm) claiming that it may already be transmitted through normal breathing - even if you don´t speak or cough - and that it may remain floating around for hours (which isn´t what Drosten seems to think). My guess is that this  is probably not a simple black and white dichotomy but some sort of risk-continuum. If Osterholm is right than you wouldn´t only have to stay 2 meters apart from the next person but rather enter their space a few hourse later (unless you´re outdoors) to be 100% safe. From what I read it´s clear that the virus can persist for hours floating around in tiny droplets. These droplets were created arteficially though and not exhaled by humans - therefore, this may be of questionable relevance. It boggles my mind that this question hasn´t been answered yet.

 

This is why I think it was irresponsible from the WHO to insist the virus it not airborne when it is not yet so clear.   In Germany, because of the German mentality there are plenty of people saying you only have to be 2m from everyone and you will be OK and that's why they are outside without any proper precautions.   Maybe the WHO end up being correct, but maybe not.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

 

Funny that comes from a "Fact check site".   But here it is what the WHO site says, notice how carefully written is the answer and how it does not really answer the question:

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

 

The virus that causes COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or speaks. These droplets are too heavy to hang in the air. They quickly fall on floors or surfaces. 

You can be infected by breathing in the virus if you are within 1 metre of a person who has COVID-19, or by touching a contaminated surface and then touching your eyes, nose or mouth before washing your hands.

 

 

This is not undisputed:

Quote

"I think the WHO is being irresponsible in giving out that information. This misinformation is dangerous," says Dr. Donald Milton, an infectious disease aerobiologist at the University of Maryland's School of Public Health.

source: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/28/823292062/who-reviews-available-evidence-on-coronavirus-transmission-through-air

 

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7 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

There is more money to be made on the discovery of a cure/vaccine than on investigating how it is transmitted...

And between cure and vaccine, there is much more money to be made on a cure...

University scientists don´t care about money. And this should be a relatively easy question to answer (probably in contrast to how much virus is needed to infect someone).

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Oh dear. CBS News is a tad confused which hospital they are filming- US or Italy.

 

 

 

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812 deaths in Italy today. Definitely reached a plateau. At the same time, it is not dropping, so it is hard to predict when this is over.

m30.png.db2eec4a8d95dee227de5e08e4d70939

I've tried to smooth out more the data, but it is still inconclusive. We need some 3 consecutive days at 700 average or below.

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