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7 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Since there seems to be no masks available that is exactly what I would expect us to be told!

Don't panic...

I would expect people to realize it is a virus and not a bacterial infection and to realize the differences in size (virii are 10 to 100 times smaller).  

 

Panic if you want.  However the masks aren't going to help much and will only give you a false sense of security.  There are much better things you could be doing.  Wash your hands.  Don't touch your eyes, mouth or nose.  Give up smoking.  

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2 hours ago, seeking said:

Wild animals? Nothing, no preventive measure, disinfectant, vaccine, medicine, mask could ever save humanity from this sort of unspeakable (unable to describe this) practice. I saw a video of a market, where Chinese shoppers walked around open carcasses of crocodiles, pythons, mongoose, snakes, bears, birds I have never seen (must be bats, baby eagles) with shopping bags. Not a single face showed any sign of disgust or a creepy feeling, which I felt just watching the video. It was a regular shopping day, as we look for spinach or others for chicken or fish. I have more to say but unable to. 

 

Technically, China did ban trading/eating wild animals after SARS, and it was enforced for a up to a few month afterwards. But it was pretty weak-willed since China is quite corrupt except when it wants to crack down on something whack-a-mole style.

 

Outside the so-called First-Tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen), most people still live rather 'developing world' lives. Even home refrigerators are not common. Soap in public washrooms (often the hole above a pit) is to be rather unexpected, and basic hygiene like hand-washing is not known/widespread among the average person. Even in hospitals, especially outside the first tier cities, soap or disinfectant is not common. (Obviously, at hotels or tourist sites for Westerners or where lots of rich Chinese are, these things may exist.)

 

Even in the first-tier cities, you'll find wet markets (i.e. from blood/water/guck on the ground, not just splashing fish) and e.g. dog meat restaurants and so on (though Western-savvy Chinese are embarrassed by such things, or deny them). Even Chinese joke about Cantonese eating anything, but the reality is that eating wild animals as part of a 'tradition' that exists everywhere in the country except, curiously, the Muslim regions of the west and Tibet (not they don't have their own quirks or irrationalities). If China were serious about stopping the trade/eating of wild and officially protected animals, it could do something. But western-style supermarkerts are simply not how most people get their food.

 

This is a state that imprisons book sellers and anything it perceives as dangerous to its authorities disappears down a black hole. The thing is, it doesn't care about wild or endangered animals being eaten. Not it's purview. Something like this will surely happen again if serious changes are not made. Don't hold your breath though.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

I wonder why the media spread the plain name "Coronavirus" this time.  Coronavirus is a generic name for this type of viruses.   The proper names were Novel Coronavirus at the beginning (nCov) and then SARS-CoV-2.  And the disease is called COVID-19.   The media could help to call it properly, or at least SARS2.    We had had other Coronaviruses before, the most (in)famous one was SARS.

 

Because that was the name it started with from other sources, and the idea of what a 'coronavirus' is was not common. Is it even now? Covid-19 is the official strain name now, but that only came out a couple weeks ago.

 

It also a better ring than WHO office jargon.

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19 minutes ago, alderhill said:

Covid-19 is the official strain name now

 

 

COVID-19 is the disease (D = disease), not the virus.  SARS2 causes COVID-19.

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2 hours ago, alderhill said:

Even Chinese joke about Cantonese eating anything, but the reality is that eating wild animals as part of a 'tradition' that exists everywhere in the country except, curiously, the Muslim regions of the west and Tibet (not they don't have their own quirks or irrationalities).

I wonder how the seemingly indiscriminate eating habits in China developed. Could it have had something to do with experiencing famine? I've read in two books written by Chinese authors, one fiction the other non-fiction, of people boiling stones in salty water and sucking on them by way of a meal when food was unavailable.

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4 hours ago, Lorelei said:

I wonder how the seemingly indiscriminate eating habits in China developed. Could it have had something to do with experiencing famine? I've read in two books written by Chinese authors, one fiction the other non-fiction, of people boiling stones in salty water and sucking on them by way of a meal when food was unavailable.

 

Possibly, but every region/culture has its famine foods. Europeans ate dogs and cats for survival now and then, but the difference is that (I'm assuming) no Europeans believe that eating the meat of a tortured dog will give them special winter energy, nor that tiger penis will make them longer, better, harder studmuffins, nor that shark fin is imbued with magical properties to battle cancer and add even more jiffy to your stiffy. The reason is the nonsense of Traditional Chinese Medicine (that makes it sound like something codified, rather than the umbrella term for folk beliefs no matter how outdated). For any ailment, there's a witches brew that will cure you. Acupuncture and tai chi may have some proven benefit, but there's absolute zero reason to be eating any animals, let alone wild or exotic poached animals, for their "qi" in the 21st century.

 

Of course, access to Western medicine is often limited and inefficient and expensive, and for the hundreds of millions who live off say $150 a week, TCM is the go-to cure. 

 

Still, trafficking and selling endangered animals should have stricter fines and jail terms, worldwide. The penalties now are really just a slap on the wrist considering the sums and volume traded. Wild animals should not be hunted except under the guise of population monitoring and some sort of regulations. I'm not even against eating dogs per se, though I never will or want to. It's more the way animals are treated that is wrong. If it's raised and killed humanely, I'd accept the cultural relativism of it all.

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6 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Panic if you want.  However the masks aren't going to help much and will only give you a false sense of security.  There are much better things you could be doing.  Wash your hands.  Don't touch your eyes, mouth or nose.  Give up smoking.  

Masks won't help at all if they are not available which is why health workers worldwide and the general population in China don't bother to use them, NOT:

"Give up smoking". I agree with the sentiment but is there any evidence that smoking is a factor in contracting the virus and or contributing to the death rate? Your link only showed a headline the rest was blanked out pending registration.

 

5 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

 

COVID-19 is the disease (D = disease), not the virus.  SARS2 causes COVID-19.

 

Why not just call it all Chinese flu which seems far more appropriate.

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Per my understanding eating preferences are always depending on your socialisation. Afaik chinese people think of yoghurt and cheese as rotten milk which makes them gag (only recently it started to be available in China at all). So dont go about bitching about eating habits like you know better. Its not famine food (else for example Ireland might also have come up with more rare food choices). Its pretty simple. Each country has some special food which make others at least have the tastebuds sending error messages to the brain.

Just a few examples I encountered.

In Brasil roasted insects are offered

Australian Aborigines fat caterpillars are eaten

US south fried butter

Sweden Surströmning

Norway cod liver oil for breakfast ( in Norway I got something which looked like a roasted chicken but tasted of fish and until today I have no idea whether it was chicken fed with fish or penguin or seagull ...)

Scotland Haggis... I am sure everyone who ever made a trip abroad (beyond ending up in Magaluf 1 week binge drinking holiday) can join and remember some surprising food choice encounters.

And here

 

So I think the issue is not what animals you eat but the questionable hygenic circumstances in the market area.

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This might seem a bit insensitive but are people buying shares or should we wait till we see this things impact on the global economy?

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33 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

This might seem a bit insensitive but are people buying shares or should we wait till we see this things impact on the global economy?


I’m keeping the course as usual and buying at the end of the month as I’m not clever enough to know where the market is going. My yearly bonus will come up in two months, ideally (in a very selfish way) the stock market would fall 50% until then but I hope not as that would mean a catastrophic health crisis indeed. In 10 or 20 years, however, the corona virus crash will be a mere blip in the screen.

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34 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Why not just call it all Chinese flu which seems far more appropriate.

 

Because influenza is not a coronavirus?  Influenza has vaccines.   Coronaviruses like  SARS, MERS , common cold do not.  When a new flu virus appears, there is often some immunity in the population and research and experience in finding a new vaccine.  

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Latest from Italy (BBC Radio 4 news at 6):-

10 dead from approx. 200 infected. A 5% death rate which is much higher than that reported from China, very worrying.

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

 

Why not just call it all Chinese flu which seems far more appropriate.

 

The WHO has guidelines to avoid offensive, politically incorrect etc. names. To avoid stigma, names shouldn't mention people, places, jobs, food, etc. and instead more neutral, generic terms are now used.

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3 minutes ago, kdak2 said:

The WHO has guidelines to avoid offensive, politically incorrect etc. names. To avoid stigma, names shouldn't mention people, places, jobs, food, etc. and instead more neutral, generic terms are now used.

 

Right, you mean like Swine flu?

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

"Give up smoking". I agree with the sentiment but is there any evidence that smoking is a factor in contracting the virus and or contributing to the death rate? Your link only showed a headline the rest was blanked out pending registration.

https://www.businessinsider.de/international/coronavirus-cases-why-more-men-than-women-2020-2/?r=US&IR=T

Many other sources too.  Evidence?  No. It is too early.  Correlation. Suspicion. Hypothesis. 

1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

Masks won't help at all if they are not available which is why health workers worldwide and the general population in China don't bother to use them, NOT:

Sorry,  the masks will not help you.  https://www.businessinsider.de/international/wuhan-coronavirus-face-masks-not-entirely-effective-2020-1/?r=US&IR=T  Health care workers and people who are already infected wear masks to prevent themselves from spreading diseases to others, not so much to protect themselves.  As has already been posted, the virii are too small and can easily pass through normal surgical masks and even n95 masks cannot guarantee protection.  If you want to wear a mask because it makes you feel better, then go right ahead. It will help remind you not to touch your face with your unwashed hands. 

 

BTW, just because lots of people do something that is useless doesn't suddenly make it a good idea. 

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Lets say you booked a flight recently to asia, and now want to cancel it because fears of the virus, is that allowed - like with returning internet goods that you bought from Amazon, if so was it the limit of the days

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23 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Latest from Italy (BBC Radio 4 news at 6):-

10 dead from approx. 200 infected. A 5% death rate which is much higher than that reported from China, very worrying.

According to RAI (Italian state television) number of deaths is now 11 with 322 people infected (3,4% death rate).

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20 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Lets say you booked a flight recently to asia, and now want to cancel it because fears of the virus, is that allowed - like with returning internet goods that you bought from Amazon, if so was it the limit of the days

Dunno, yesterday!

What about if you work in the UK right now and have just returned from a quarantined area?

No idea how other European countries are dealing with this issue.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51628524

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17 minutes ago, john g. said:

German measles!! (My German partner Nicole found it offensive when she first heard it..but then I explained the reason for the name! )

https://www.health24.com/Medical/Childhood-diseases/Overview/German-measles-Rubella-20120721

 

 

The thing is most Americans (in my experience) don't know or don't care to know about the origin of the name. German chocolate cake is still widely believed to be a German traditional cake while most Germans I know think it's a vile concoction... :D 

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