4,884 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

STOP

posting videos with conspiracy theories.  On this thread, or ANYWHERE!  PLEASE!

NO ONE is interested.

NO ONE is grateful for the "information".

MOST PEOPLE question the sanity of those who post them.

Please.  Please, stop.

 

@dessa_dangerous, I'm trying really hard not to come across as snarky. That's not my intention.

You and the other mods/admins are the only ones in a position to stop the tin foil hatters / conspiracy theorists etc.etc.etc. on this forum.
Because they ain't gonna stop - they'll push boundaries and laugh at us getting mad at them.

It's human nature, derived from shrieking monkeys flinging poo.
I know it's a lot of unpaid work to constantly clean up here, and thank you that you guys are doing it. Now even more than ever, when lots of people are stressed out.

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7 minutes ago, Metall said:

 

@dessa_dangerous, I'm trying really hard not to come across as snarky. That's not my intention.

You and the other mods/admins are the only ones in a position to stop the tin foil hatters / conspiracy theorists etc.etc.etc. on this forum.
Because they ain't gonna stop - they'll push boundaries and laugh at us getting mad at them.

It's human nature, derived from shrieking monkeys flinging poo.
I know it's a lot of unpaid work to constantly clean up here, and thank you that you guys are doing it. Now even more than ever, when lots of people are stressed out.

 

:lol:

 

 

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And here is where they learned that truth does not matter. Scumbags, every last  one of them.

 

 

 

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Via Twitter

 

This is devastating and heartbreaking... They are removing respirators from patients over 65 in Spain and giving them to younger patients. Seniors are then given sedatives so they don’t suffer. We need to treat this pandemic like the biggest crisis of our lifetime because it is.

 

is this happening in Germany (yet)

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16 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

Via Twitter

 

This is devastating and heartbreaking... They are removing respirators from patients over 65 in Spain and giving them to younger patients. Seniors are then given sedatives so they don’t suffer. We need to treat this pandemic like the biggest crisis of our lifetime because it is.

 

is this happening in Germany (yet)

 

I read today that Germany is doubling intensive care beds from 28,000 to 56,000; that is more beds than all the critical patients in the world right now so I really hope we don't come to see such tragedies here. Also the government is compensating hospitals for keeping the beds available (560 EUR/day for empty normal beds, 50,000 EUR for ventilator units). I also recall reading that a few border states are taking in intensive care patients from France to help treat them; I see it as another indication that Germany still has capacity. 

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Just now, marshtea said:

Also the government is compensating hospitals for keeping the beds available (560 EUR/day for empty normal beds, 50,000 EUR for ventilator units)

 

huh?  If the hospital is equipped with ventilator units why should they be paid extra to "keep them available" - and who are they denying treatment to in order to keep them available?

 

this doesn't sound right.

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5 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

huh?  If the hospital is equipped with ventilator units why should they be paid extra to "keep them available" - and who are they denying treatment to in order to keep them available?

 

this doesn't sound right.

The news was very brief and I didn't find more details...but perhaps I paraphrased it wrong, the way I understand it is that hospitals are asked to expand beyond normal capacity. All those new beds/ventilators come at a cost and also incur cost to maintain and keep, hence the compensation. I thought it was rather thoughtful, because doubling capacity is for extreme events like this and probably does not make sense financially for the hospitals (assuming the virus is not here to stay). 

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Presumably they have asked that non-urgent surgery is not performed until after the crisis, thus leaving available capacity for if and when, but until the apocalypse comes, the beds are in effect wasted. 

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1 minute ago, marshtea said:

All those new beds/ventilators come at a cost

 

THAT (increasing availability with new equipmet/installations) makes 50k euros worth of sense...good.

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10 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

huh?  If the hospital is equipped with ventilator units why should they be paid extra to "keep them available" - and who are they denying treatment to in order to keep them available?

1.) It takes man power to un-mothball equipment and to keep it in working state.

2.) Getting convinced to postpone a cash-cow like a hip replacement or a breast augmentation needs an incentive.

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1 minute ago, franklan said:

Getting convinced to postpone a cash-cow like a hip replacement or a breast augmentation needs an incentive.

 

ffs how about an official order?  is that really so hard?  50k per day as pure incentive is obnoxious.

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Just now, lisa13 said:

 

ffs how about an official order?  is that really so hard?

This is not the GDR.

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1 minute ago, lisa13 said:

it's also not the USA.

Thank you for rubbing salt in that wound.

 

Greetings from New Hampshire!

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43 minutes ago, Rushrush said:

Via Twitter

 

This is devastating and heartbreaking... They are removing respirators from patients over 65 in Spain and giving them to younger patients. Seniors are then given sedatives so they don’t suffer. We need to treat this pandemic like the biggest crisis of our lifetime because it is.

 

is this happening in Germany (yet)

  

Do you have a source other than Twitter? They were doing this in Italy but I think it was people over 80. Spain is being hit hard but it is still early days.

 

Thanks.

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30 minutes ago, marshtea said:

 

I read today that Germany is doubling intensive care beds from 28,000 to 56,000; that is more beds than all the critical patients in the world right now so I really hope we don't come to see such tragedies here. Also the government is compensating hospitals for keeping the beds available (560 EUR/day for empty normal beds, 50,000 EUR for ventilator units). I also recall reading that a few border states are taking in intensive care patients from France to help treat them; I see it as another indication that Germany still has capacity. 

 

The preparations in Munich look ok from a rookie perspective. I don't have much experience with hospitals, but here's what I noticed.

 

I was at the ER in Klinikum Bogenhausen in Munich this Saturday for something unrelated to Corona. What I noticed was that the ER was separated from the rest of the hospital and also from the Corona intake area. The ER was minimally staffed with only one doctor there. The rest were probably in the upper floors with the Corona section. Even in the ER, all the staff had full protective gear throughout my 7 hr stay there. I also heard them giving instructions to other staff on how to handle if they receive a suspected case. While being wheeled to a scan room that was outside the ER area, I noticed barriers everywhere and someone escorted the nurse & me all the while we were outside the ER area. I also noticed almost 100 wheeled beds, all sanitised and covered, ready to be deployed if needed. There were probably more in the other areas. So I would guess, they are fine in the bed department. Not sure about the ventilators though. Hopefully they are able to cope with any surge that may come.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, marshtea said:

 

I read today that Germany is doubling intensive care beds from 28,000 to 56,000;

 

What good are more beds if there are not enough health care workers to take care of the patients? 

 

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11 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

What good are more beds if there are not enough health care workers to take care of the patients? 

 

A very valid point. I've thought about it and have no solution. I hear Canada is asking for retired health care workers to come back (and treat non-corona patients) and asking for volunteers from the medical students. 

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30 minutes ago, MunichDesi said:

 

The preparations in Munich look ok from a rookie perspective. I don't have much experience with hospitals, but here's what I noticed.

 

I was at the ER in Klinikum Bogenhausen in Munich this Saturday for something unrelated to Corona. What I noticed was that the ER was separated from the rest of the hospital and also from the Corona intake area. The ER was minimally staffed with only one doctor there. The rest were probably in the upper floors with the Corona section. Even in the ER, all the staff had full protective gear throughout my 7 hr stay there. I also heard them giving instructions to other staff on how to handle if they receive a suspected case. While being wheeled to a scan room that was outside the ER area, I noticed barriers everywhere and someone escorted the nurse & me all the while we were outside the ER area. I also noticed almost 100 wheeled beds, all sanitised and covered, ready to be deployed if needed. There were probably more in the other areas. So I would guess, they are fine in the bed department. Not sure about the ventilators though. Hopefully they are able to cope with any surge that may come.

 

 

 

Hope you are well and healthy again.

 

Munich sounds much more experienced/careful than here. I was also at the ER due to a virus infection (so they treated me as a potential COVID-19 patient in the beginning until my test results were back). The hospital was not overloaded and the staff all had ample PPE. However some of them did not seem very experienced with the protective measures. I was placed in an isolated room; but then I found out the window had been open the whole time, and the nurses' office was right outside. Also the nurse who took my tests worn the full gear (goggles, two masks, gloves, overall, cap etc.), but then she started undressing in the same room as me. I have friends who are medical staff in China (even Wuhan), so after I was discharged, I asked for the best practice guide from them in English and German. I'm not in a position to judge the correctness/value of those guides but I forwarded anyway just in case they'd be of any value. 

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