UK rental income on German tax returns (post-Brexit)

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Really testing my German skills here but if I understand the text properly, I think that UK property rental losses (or those of any other third country for that matter) do not feature in the Progressionsvorbehalt as negative amounts, not, at least, in the year in which the loss arises. You can carry forward that loss and set it against profits from the same source in a future year (thus effectively feeding in to the Progressionsvorbehalt in that later year by way of lower profits) but you do not get a negative Progressionsvorbehalt in the year of loss.

 

Now I await someone with better German skills than I to tell me I mis-read that...

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Abschreibung von Gebäuden: So sparen Vermieter steuern | Ratgeber (ofina.de)

 

Was ein Vermieter von der Steuer absetzen kann .  VLH

 

▷ Das können Vermieter von der Steuer absetzen (immowelt.de)

 

just some links i found (in german), which talk about which costs can be offset against Rental income, when calculating the final taxable profit in Germany.

in case they are any use to anyone else...

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If anyone has any other general experience, advice, or practical tips about filling in the latest versions of Forms V or AUS, or any other tips on dealing with rental income from the UK post-Brexit, then I would be very happy.

I just want to get it right in my head. 

i think i am on a good way generally, but there are still some grey areas.

Due to Brexit making everything that little bit harder, I have never considered either Form  V or Form AUS before, as I never previously had to.

I have printed Form  V or Form AUS out, and had a look through them obviously.

My German is not too bad, but the German tax forms are always slightly ‘overwhelming’ the first time you look at them.

Remember people - “sharing is caring”

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1 hour ago, DannyThru said:

If anyone has any other general experience ... on dealing with rental income from the UK post-Brexit

 

Are you not too early?

You must report the UK income to the Finanzamt only for the German tax year 2021 onward. And this you can do it only from 1.1.2022. How can anyone possibly have experience in reporting UK rental income to the FA?

 

All well and good discussing it, but nobody can possibly have done it already.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, either way I'd like to hear.

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4 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

 

Are you not too early?

You must report the UK income to the Finanzamt only for the German tax year 2021 onward. And this you can do it only from 1.1.2022. How can anyone possibly have experience in reporting UK rental income to the FA?

 

All well and good discussing it, but nobody can possibly have done it already.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, either way I'd like to hear.

For sure, you are right in that sense. 

Nobody had to do it yet.

I never had to do it yet, which is why it feels quite tricky.

 

Maybe i am ahead of the game - i just wanted to be prepared, and try and understand it in advance.

 

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7 minutes ago, DannyThru said:

For sure, you are right in that sense. 

Nobody had to do it yet.

 

Ah, thanks for answering, your wording really confused me, I read it as "anyone ALREADY reported UK rental income to the FA?".

Don't be intimidated more than necessary. These tax thingy are always scary the first time around. Once done, they become plain sailing the second time around...

Cheers,

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Just now, Gambatte said:

 

Ah, thanks for answering, your wording really confused me, I read it as "anyone ALREADY reported UK rental income to the FA?".

Don't be intimidated more than necessary. These tax thingy are always scary the first time around. Once done, they become plain sailing the second time around...

Cheers,

agreed.

with Brexit  (Germany / UK) are all in the same boat.

 

the wording was maybe inaccurate

- i maybe should have said, in case we know anyone who already does it relating to another non-EU / non-EEA country. 

(e.g. they live in Germany, but have property rental income from Mexico, USA , India etc.)

 

They might have experience of forms V and AUS , which could be shared here, in order to make it easy now for people affected by Brexit who are completely new to this.

 

(just saying)

 

however - let's still try and share any experience , knowledge and understanding if at all possible, so that everybody helps everybody.

i thought that was the whole idea of this forum, right?

Otherwise, why are we here?

 

 

 

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I might be wrong but don't you need only the Anlage AUS to bring the UK rental income into the Progressionsvorbehalt?

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43 minutes ago, GaryC said:

I might be wrong but don't you need only the Anlage AUS to bring the UK rental income into the Progressionsvorbehalt?

interesting opinion @GaryC - i think i heard somewhere from PandaMunich that  both were needed for other '3rd countries'

 

 

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Tax on UK Income (e.g. ISA Share & Savings Options, Rental Income) - Finance - Toytown Germany

 

PandaMunich

 

On 3/6/2018, 1:52:17, spacecow said:

Rental income is not taxable in Germany and also does not affect the tax rate for my German income - is this right? Does this mean I don’t need to report this as part of the foreign income when doing the German tax return in the future, as long as it fulfils the all the requirements from UK assessment prospective?

 

Yes, but only as long as the UK remains in the EU.

After Brexit, you have to report the UK rental income in Anlage V and Anlage AUS, and it will raise your German tax rate,

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Why TWO Anlage?

What is each of them, V and AUS, for?

 

Edit:

I just checked the link above, Panda wrote "you have to report the UK rental income in Anlage V and Anlage AUS, ". Fine with it but why the heck we need TWO Anlage?

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You don't expect anything associated with the Finanzamt to be less than complex?

You've been here long enough!

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Anlage V is to return income from property, including (taxable?) foreign rental income and AUS is used to indicate income that is subject to progression only in this case, which is why I read it as being necessary only to use AUS but my reading was clearly not correct...

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1 hour ago, HEM said:

You don't expect anything associated with the Finanzamt to be less than complex?

:blink::wacko:

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1 hour ago, Gambatte said:

Why TWO Anlage?

What is each of them, V and AUS, for?

 

Edit:

I just checked the link above, Panda wrote "you have to report the UK rental income in Anlage V and Anlage AUS, ". Fine with it but why the heck we need TWO Anlage?

 

You can either:

The first option is all that is needed, but will lead to the Finanzamt asking you for the calculation, to check that you really did it according to German rules, i.e. according to the method of Anlage V.

 

The second option shows the Finanzamt that you did the calculation "correctly", i.e. to German rules, so no extra questions from them, but carries the risk that if you get a clueless caseworker, that they may be tempted to tax the UK rental profit directly and not only put it under Progressionsvorbehalt.

So here, you need to check the Bescheid attentively, to ensure that there is no entry "Einkünfte aus Vermietung und Verpachtung" (which only exists when they tax rental profit directly).

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