Cholesterol values - question for the Doctors

83 posts in this topic

Any doctor here?

 

I'm 46 and by all standard have been (still are) extremely cardiovascularly fit because of sport for the last 30+ year. I also have the healthiest nutrition (most people would say the most boring).

Just checked the cholesterol values and I was surprised they are slightly off.

 

Cholesterin in Serum: 242 (optimum: less than 200)

HDL-Cholesterin im Serum: 77 (optimum: more than 60)

LDL Cholesterin (direktmess.): 161 (optimum: less than 130)

Tryglicerdide im Serum: 208 (optimum: less than 150)

Glukose im Pharma: 104 (optimum: 74-99)

 

What to make of it?:blink:

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Cholesterol is also dependent on your diet, and some people are more susceptible to higher levels than others.

Exercise can help reduce it, but can't stop it totally.  

 

If you have any concern then you should ask the doctor who done the test.

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Why don't you ask your doc?

 

I am not a doctor...

 

However, I am very wary of figures and statistics.  We are not robots or all identical. Increase in cholesterol seems to be a normal/typical feature of ageing. There was a proposal a few years back in the UK to systematically ("prophylactically") put anyone over the age of 50 on statins. Dunno if or how far that was implemented. But what madness. Great for the pharma industry of course. You may bring your values down if you go on the tablets, but your liver will have something else to metabolise...

 

Wait till you start doing PDA tests for prostate cancer screening. This figure may be an indicator of cancer. Or not! Half of the poor chaps thrown into panic mode are not sick. But they are robbed of their peace of mind.

 

 

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Also, the tests can be very sensitive to what’s happened even during the past few weeks.  My friend was on vacation in England eating lots of yummy stuff and came back home only to test right away at high values.  After resorting to his everyday more appropriate diet and retesting all was within normal limits.  He was pleased that he read up on that and did it his way because after the first test the doctor‘s office called wanting to prescribe statins.  In the US they are wildly overprescribed so big Pharma can clean up.  I am not advising, just pointing out that there seem to be conflicting views out there.

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Gambatte: When your body works as it should it would adjust the correct values. If you don't get enough cholesterin through your food, your body will make it.

When there is enough in the food nothing is produced. So, even as a vagan you may have too high values.

I saw an experiment on TV where a man was only allowed to eat eggs for one week. He ate 60!

Result: he lost weight. Cholesterin values were still ok.

@optimistaJust a high PSA value is not enough. Relevant is the quotient between free PSA and total PSA. The PSA value is also dependent on the size of the prostate.

A large, healthy prostate can show a value above 3 without any cancer risk.  A value of 10 calls for a knife.

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The triglyceride value is the most off putting imo. Did do the test in a fasting state and did they also check your blood sugar? 

 

Triglycerides are a marker for metabolic syndrome so it might be worth further investigation

 

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Thanks all.

Lisa, are you a doctor, or nurse?

No fasting. In fact, the test was 10min after lunch and coffee.

Blood sugar not sure, maybe, I'll check again...

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Discuss with your Doctor. We do not know what your previous levels were, what your health history is and non fasting  affects results.

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Well at the risk of being labelled as someone thinking against the grain,

my advice is to ignore the  cholesterol  levels and the tests completely

 

There is still (after 60 yrs of clinical research) no evidence that  cholesterol  eaten

can cross the boundary into your bloodstream.

 

Assuming your German (or French) is good enough, you can watch this 

wonderful documentary from ARTE on youtube.

 

Cholesterol  : The Big Bluff

 

 

 

Alternatively, I recommend reading 

Krank durch Früherkennung by Frank Wittig

It includes a bibliography of many, many studies backing up his ideas.

 


I found a Dr in my local town who agrees - and took me off my statins.

 

I'm not a doc. Nor am I medically trained.

But the book and the film convinced me (and my educated and trained doc).

 

It's an uphill struggle to go against the medical advice - but I havn't seen any 

side effects yet.

Yes - I have angiograms, heart/breathing tests on the ergometer and other tests

at the docs appropriate to my age (over 60).


Your partner and even your family will chip in too - mine did.

But in the end it's your choice (not some unknown forum addict from the internet ! )

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gambatte said:

No fasting. In fact, the test was 10min after lunch and coffee.

 

That's odd.  When I get my annual physical, which includes extensive blood tests, I'm instructed to not eat/drink (except water) the day of the exam.

 

51 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

my advice is to ignore the  cholesterol  levels and the tests completely

 

not to mention vaccines as well?  Your advice is stupid and flies in the face of all reputable medical practices...worldwide and for decades.

 

54 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

I havn't seen any 

side effects yet.

 

Strokes and heart attacks rarely give warnings.  If one should strike you, don't bother going to hospital; they'll probably give you the medicines you object to.

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This is a controversial topic within the medical community. I´m a doctor but retired more than 20 years ago and haven´t kept my knowledge up to date, so I can´t claim much authority on the issue. However, I can tell you that lab values are only one part of a much bigger puzzle. As a student I still learned that elevated cholesterol levels alone were not even proven to be a risk. Only in combination with other factors like e. g. adipositas, hypertension, smoking, sedentary lifestyle, diabetes etc. was there an elevated risk. It´s unclear to me whether this is still true. There was a study published last year claiming that elevated cholesterol levels are a risk factor on it´s own and that this couldn´t have been shown before because previous trials only had too short follow up periods (like 10 years) or other problems. The jury is still out on this study as well (I haven´t read it myself but only an article about it though).

 

There is also a belief that it´s not the level of cholesterol but rather the ratio of HDL-/LDL-cholesterol which is important. That has also become contested over the last decade. And I think the jury is out on this as well. 

 

It´s also true that a lot of cholesterol is formed by your body - the amount and fraction varies between people and I guess even within one person, depending on the situation (sedentary? sporty? fasting? age? alcohol?). It can be 80% and more which is of endogenous origin, so dieting wouldn´t do much in those patients (if you can even call them patients as this implies that there is something wrong with their health).

 

If these were my values and I was otherwise healthy and had no additional risk factors I´d try to live a healthy lifestyle, lose weight if necesssary, and have it checked a few months later (not having eaten for at least 12 hours). I definitely wouldn´t take statins with those values. They´re not excessive (I´ve seen patients with cholesterol levels of more than 800 mg/100 ml - just to give an idea of where the scale ends). I might consider though eating things that adsorb cholesterol like oats or other food rich in fibre (soluble and insoluble), maybe even chitosan (ground shells of mussles, snails and similiar pets which also have that effect). This will in theory lower the amount absorbed from ingested as well as endogenous cholesterol (by reducing reuptake of what´s secreted via the bile).

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3 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Thanks all.

Lisa, are you a doctor, or nurse?

No fasting. In fact, the test was 10min after lunch and coffee.

Blood sugar not sure, maybe, I'll check again...

 

no I'm not.  are you actually expecting to get professional medical advice on Toytown?  If you want profi advice, see a doc.  Really.

 

Everything I have read and been told by doctors is that a lipids test must be done in fasting state.  But I'm not a doctor so...wishing you luck finding the answers you seek.

 

eta: your glucose value, which is also a marker for metabolic syndrome and is a "simple" blood sugar test was apparently elevated as well.  However glucose tests should also be performed on an empty stomach unless it's an intensive test where they gauge your blood sugar levels in response to food/sugar stimulus.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gambatte said:

No fasting. In fact, the test was 10min after lunch and coffee

That invalidates the results.

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I was curious on that jeba because I've always been told to fast.  But apparently the standards are changing if you google it.  And they are changing in Europe but lagging behind in the US.  The bigger question still remains whether these results are valuable to begin with.

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I think the "standards" depend very much on the techniques used to run the tests.  I have been told to fast before lipid tests every time I've had them, both here and in the US.

 

that's not to say medical professionals always know what they are talking about, but since that seems to be a litmus test here, that's what I've been told and have always followed it.  

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10 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

I think the "standards" depend very much on the techniques used to run the tests.  I have been told to fast before lipid tests every time I've had them, both here and in the US.

They don´t depend on the techniques used but on the target under investigation. If you e. g. want to establish blood glucose levels those will obviously be higher after having had a chocolate bar or three. Fasting or not won´t move the needle on e. g. your blood count though.

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To the OP: you should consult the guidelines in this article.  Your results indicate a concern you should discuss with your doctor.

 

The Mayo Clinic is a highly respected medical establishment.  Doubt them at your peril.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/cholesterol-test/about/pac-20384601

 

A cholesterol test is an important tool. High cholesterol levels often are a significant risk factor for coronary artery disease.

 

 A complete cholesterol test is done to determine whether your cholesterol is high and estimate your risk of developing heart attacks and other forms of heart disease and diseases of the blood vessels.

 

More-frequent testing might be needed if your initial test results were abnormal or if you already have coronary artery disease, you're taking cholesterol-lowering medications, or you're at higher risk of coronary artery disease because you:

·        Have a family history of high cholesterol or heart attacks

·        Are overweight

·        Are physically inactive

·        Have diabetes

·        Eat an unhealthy diet

·        Smoke cigarettes

·        Are a man older than 45 or a woman older than 55

People with a history of heart attacks or strokes require regular cholesterol testing to monitor the effectiveness of their treatments.

Generally you're required to fast, consuming no food or liquids other than water, for nine to 12 hours before the test. 

If your results show that your cholesterol level is high, don't get discouraged. You might be able to lower your cholesterol with lifestyle changes, such as quitting smoking, exercising and eating a healthy diet.

If lifestyle changes aren't enough, cholesterol-lowering medications also might help. 

 

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I don't know about the specific techniques used for lipids, but it's not a null consideration.  For example, progesterone levels are often tested using an assay (RIA) that unfortunately also picks up metabolites of progesterone, which leads to extremely misleading values when one takes exogenous progesterone orally.  The first pass through the liver results in loads of these metabolites and very little actual progesterone in the blood so the overall measure appears much higher than it actually is.  On the other hand, there are techniques (in this case LC-MS) which are far better at filtering out the metabolites and which offer a more accurate value.  If a doc doesn't know which method is used for the test, it can be very misleading indeed.  In theory the reference ranges offered by a lab should help, but afaik that's not bulletproof unless the lab KNOWS the test is for someone taking progesterone orally and has adjusted the ranges to account for expected increased metabolites accordingly.

 

Maybe Beth Ann can weigh in on whether the reason the changing advice about timing of the blood draw relative to food intake is related to new information about old tests (that would be strange as normally guidelines are developed based on empirical evidence), or the implementation of new tests that eliminate this dependency.  Otherwise we know nothing, really.

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5 hours ago, Gambatte said:

What to make of it?:blink:

For tonight I would take some deep breaths.  You're on the right track by asking questions and you have some good info here to get the ball rolling on further research.  This is a controversial subject.  

34 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

that's not to say medical professionals always know what they are talking about

That's certainly what I learned after life experiences and spending 20 years working in healthcare.  So pick people you can trust and who aren't condescending to you when you question things.  It's really important that you have a say in your healthcare decisions.

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1... Go back to your doctor.. demand loads of tests... get your self fit... 

 

2 Do nothing...

 

 

The outcome of doing #1...   you will die heathly...

 

The outcome of doing #2... you will die un-healthy...

 

 

Neither has any timescale allocated.. 

 

 

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