Problem with Nebenkosten after moving out

19 posts in this topic

Hello all! 

 

I have a very unusual problem. I was living in Germany for 3 years (Bremen). In my rental contract, there was a mistake that I never noticed. It was written that my Kaltmiete was 246 euros and my Nebenkosten was 95 euro and the total money I have to pay was 331 euros (10 euro less if you add 246+96). All three numbers are written in the contract. I was paying the 331 euro as this was the price I had to pay. After I moved out, they are asking me to pay the Nebenkosten difference stating that I was only paying 85 euro. However, I always paid my rent (331 euro) as stated in my contract. I would like to ask you if they have the right to actually ask me to pay extra now for the Nebenkosten. I have the contract stating that 95 euro is the Nebenkosten and all the proof I paid the total amount requested. Do I need to pay for the mistake or the landlord has to take responsibility? Currently, I do not live in Germany and it is very hard to deal with all this. Any advice will be helpful. Thank you in advance. 

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It's an obvious calculation-error (or typo), and the correct total amount could have easily been deduced. You have no grounds to fight this and you are liable to pay. Obviously this is assuming that the "Nebenkosten" were an all-inclusive deal ("Pauschal"), if it was only a pre-payment, the whole argument is irrelevant, because you would only pay what you use. It is not so difficult to pay a bill in Germany, even if you are not local. 

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Well if I do understand @John.G correctly banking from Greece it is a little difficult. Which however does not change the responsibility to pay it.

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But why do I need to pay for the error? Is it not the responsibility of the landlord to take care of typos? 

For example, if I go to a shop and I get the bill and I pay, no one can come after and request additional money if they made the error. Right? 

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is the owner trying to say you owe the  10 euro diff for all 3 years you lived there? The nebenkosten In the contract is a estimate and you should have received a annual statement showing the actuals he should have asked you then to make up the difference if actuals were really 10 euro more After the year one statement The contract amount is not thereal share of nebenkosten it could have been 20 more not 10 or only 70 a month and he owes you money. Do you have the annual statements?  If not ask for them not sure how far back you can be required to pay he should have caught it at year one. In my case my nebenkosten was reduced this year by 100 per month  as it was to high and i got a large refund.

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1 hour ago, lunasuenos said:

is the owner trying to say you owe the  10 euro diff for all 3 years you lived there? The nebenkosten In the contract is a estimate and you should have received a annual statement showing the actuals he should have asked you then to make up the difference if actuals were really 10 euro more After the year one statement The contract amount is not thereal share of nebenkosten it could have been 20 more not 10 or only 70 a month and he owes you money. Do you have the annual statements?  If not ask for them not sure how far back you can be required to pay he should have caught it at year one. In my case my nebenkosten was reduced this year by 100 per month  as it was to high and i got a large refund.

 

this and nothing more.  in the very worst case you could be on the hook if you underpaid the actual nebenkosten for 2019, and that's it.

 

eta:  unless the landlord presented you with a rechnung in years past and you failed to pay any amount owed.  the rule is they have to present you with the bill and any claim for underpayment by the end of the following year (so for underpaid nebenkosten 2018 they'd have to give you the rechnung and outstanding balance by the end of 2019)

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Let me explain again. The contract states that I pay 95 euro nebenkosten, 246 kaltmiete and  331 total (the 331 was a miscalculation by their side). At the end of the second year I received the bill for the nebenkosten of the first year stating that I am paying 95 euro pauschal and I didn't have to pay additionally. Now they send me a bill for the second year changing the pauschal to 85 euro (without any correction in the contract which is signed by both parties) and asking me to pay the difference. Why they took the miscalculation from the nebenkosten and not from the kaltmiete? It was their mistake that they ask me to pay 331 euro in total. 

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What I am trying to say is that who determines where the typo was done? Maybe the typo was in the kaltmiete. 

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Wow, that's petty.

 

You got lucky the first time they miscalculated your nebenkosten balance, but the cold rent doesn't change over a typo in the warm rent and nebenkosten is ultimately calculated against actual costs.

 

Stop trying to wheedle your way out of it. Pay them what you legitimately owe and be done with it.

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Who guarantees that the typo was in the warmmiete? Maybe it was in the kaltmiete. I am not trying to not pay. All I am saying is that they took the decision alone to define what was mistake in the contract. The 331 was written in 3 places in the contract. And the kation was 450 euro (less than 2 kaltmiete??) All I am saying is that it is weird they decide to find the typo was in the calculation. 

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If common sense doesn't come easy to you, join the mieterverein for profi help.

 

And I don't believe for one moment that you're not trying to wheedle out of the final payment. You had three YEARS to straighten this out.

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On 1/18/2020, 11:31:18, magica said:

What I am trying to say is that who determines where the typo was done? Maybe the typo was in the kaltmiete. 

As I said before, the correct total amount could have easily been deduced, so that how the determination of the calculation mistake is determined. Anybody with the slightest clue of renting an apartment would now that total rent = "kaltmiete" + "nebenkosten"; and not "kaltmiete" + "nebenkosten" - 10. So because the owner was spelling out the separate costs in the contract, the mistake is obvious: The true part describes the subject matter with sufficient certainty, therefore, the untrue part will be rejected or ignored. 

 

I realize this is not what you want to hear, so here is a more desirable answer just for you: Of course you should keep the money that isn't yours. You have every right to keep it and you shall get a lawyer to keep your 120 euros, after all it is so difficult to deal with this while you are not in Germany. Please do let us know how it goes.

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22 hours ago, magica said:

Who guarantees that the typo was in the warmmiete? Maybe it was in the kaltmiete. I am not trying to not pay. All I am saying is that they took the decision alone to define what was mistake in the contract. The 331 was written in 3 places in the contract. And the kation was 450 euro (less than 2 kaltmiete??) All I am saying is that it is weird they decide to find the typo was in the calculation. 

 

That is why there is a legal system.  Arguing the detailed points of contracts is the job of lawyers.

If you want a full resolution to this problem then you will need to get a lawyer and go to court.  Which for 120 euros is not worth it (and there is also a chance that you lose!)

 

...

 

 

 

 

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If they were trying to get op to pay nebenkosten for years prior the argument that the landlord had their chance so too bad would be valid.

 

That is not the case here. Landlord has delivered a bill for outstanding nebenkosten in due time. Totally legal and not unreasonable. Why are you encouraging this person?

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2 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

If they were trying to get op to pay nebenkosten for years prior the argument that the landlord had their chance so too bad would be valid.

 

That is not the case here. Landlord has delivered a bill for outstanding nebenkosten in due time. Totally legal and not unreasonable. Why are you encouraging this person?

 

 

Yeah OK.  Edited

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One other question. Since my landlord didn't return the deposit yet (it has been 5 months), why can't he keep the money from there? 

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he should. that is the whole basis (normally) for holding back any part of the kaution after a clean handover protokol.

 

eta: do you have a clean handover protokol?

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