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Multiple Warning Letters at Once ("Abmahnung" by employer)

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Hi All, 


I am involved in a very complicated situation with my employer. 

 

I have received multiple warning letters (Abmanhungen) in the post while I have been out on long term sick leave. These warning letters refer to events that took place while I was in work before I was on sick leave. These warning letters have caused me a lot of distress and I also do not agree with some of the allegations made in the letters.

 

My first question is: Did the employer have the right to send me a copy of these warning letters while I was out sick from work? 

 

The details surrounding this are quite specific however if you are experienced/knowledgeable in this area of warning letters etc. I would be extremely grateful if you could send me a direct message to help clarify the issue. 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, James Taylor said:

 

My first question is: Did the employer have the right to send me a copy of these warning letters while I was out sick from work? 

 

Yes, warnings can also be sent during an illness/inability to work. 

 

13 minutes ago, James Taylor said:

 

The details surrounding this are quite specific however if you are experienced/knowledgeable in this area of warning letters etc. I would be extremely grateful if you could send me a direct message to help clarify the issue.

 

Find a lawyer specialising in labour law immediately - laymans advice from complete strangers on the Internet is not helpful here.

 

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1 hour ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Yes, warnings can also be sent during an illness/inability to work. 

 

 

Find a lawyer specialising in labour law immediately - laymans advice from complete strangers on the Internet is not helpful here.

 

Quote

 

 

I understand. Thank you very much. 

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Warning letters should be given as soon as the cause for complaint is known.

 

Were the things you are accused of known at the time of happening or were they discovered at a later date? For example, if you repeatedly turned up late for work in October/November you should have been given the warning letters then not months after.

 

If you receive three written warnings then a termination of your contract is usually on its way. Perhaps this is what your company is planning to do. Does your company have a Betriebsrat?

 

Do not ignore the written warnings, give an explanation or denial to all the accusations against you.

 

As Someonesdaughter suggested you need a laywer specialised in Arbeitsrecht.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, White Rose of Yorkshire said:

...

Do not ignore the written warnings, give an explanation or denial to all the accusations against you.

...

 

 

 

Actually this is not always the best approach!

 

I was told once by a works council member that it is often better not to say anything.  Because if it goes to court then they already know your defence in advance and can counter against it, whereas if you don't provide a response then they have to react immediately during the court case and have no time to prepare a counter argument!

 

 

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@James Taylor Of what infraction do the write ups complain? Which union covers your workplace? Does your company have an individual union contract or is it part of an arbeitgeberverband?

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On 14.1.2020, 06:32:58, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Actually this is not always the best approach!

 

I was told once by a works council member that it is often better not to say anything.  Because if it goes to court then they already know your defence in advance and can counter against it, whereas if you don't provide a response then they have to react immediately during the court case and have no time to prepare a counter argument!

 

 

 

1. If he ignores the accusations and doesn’t deny them, then he more or less admits what he has been accused of because he hasn’t offered any counter arguments.

 

2. Going to court is a last resort and comes after a lengthy exchange of letters between employer and employee and their legal advisors. Sometimes both sides come to an agreement and there is no need to go to court.

 

3.  It could take several weeks or even months to get a court hearing.      

 

4. When his case is heard, one of the first questions he will be asked is how he responded to the accusations against him.

 

 

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9 hours ago, White Rose of Yorkshire said:

 

1. If he ignores the accusations and doesn’t deny them, then he more or less admits what he has been accused of because he hasn’t offered any counter arguments.

...

 

 

 

It is not a case of admitting or denying, it is a case of explaining.

 

If you didn't do something then you of course don't admit to it.  But in most cases if it can't be proved either way then the employer can't issue you with a complaint letter anyway, and if they do they you should probably immediately go to a lawyer. 

I am talking about a situation where you don't deny that it occurred but have a good reason then it is sometimes better to say nothing.  At least, put nothing formal in writing to counter the argument at the time.

 

For example:  Let's say you boss doesn't like you and is looking for any excuse to get on your back and get rid of you.  So there is already a bad relationship.  Your turn up late for work one time and get a formal complaint letter.  At the time you say that there were extraordinary circumstances but the boss, backed by HR, doesn't want to hear what you want to say, says that there are no excuses, etc. and so anyway issues the letter.

In this case you don't counter at the time.  If you counter the argument, the letter will not withdrawn, it won't change the situation, but now they know your argument and can prepare against it.

 

Let's say the relationship gets worse and you are then fired and the situation ends up in court.  When this letter is the brought up in front of the judge and you are asked why were you late on this occasion and you say "because my son had an accident and was taken to hospital in an ambulance" then the other side is not prepared against this, can't produce any evidence of other issues, and so the judge is going to be sympathetic to you (I assume this is the truth and you can prove it) and sees the employer as cold-hearted who didn't show any sympathy or try to help an employee going through a family crisis.

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