Plattdeutsch > Hochdeutsch - English equivalent?

14 posts in this topic

Hi all, Happy old Boxing Day,

 

I'm catching up on work while others 'sleep it off'. Well, Christmas is a bit exhausting.

 

What I really want to ask is -  (because I can't myself think of anything appropriate) - is there any way of translating Hochdeutsch? That is to say, it makes sense to 'translate' Plattdeutsch to Hochdeutsch but do you translate from colloquial English to the Queen's English? - Well hardly, if you're American, Australian, Canadian etc. Can anyone think of a general term for 'normally spoken' English as opposed to dialect or slang? I'm sure there is one, I just can't think of it at the moment.

 

I'd be grateful for suggestions. I just hope there's someone around today.

Cheers....

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some people say 'school English'. parents often say 'use your in public English please.'

 

Formal and informal?

 

 

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But Plattdeutsch isn't informal or colloquial use of language nor just an accent. It is a real dialect. More like Scottish. Using different words. For example: to speak - sprechen - schnacken. Partly it sounds like dutch. So it's maybe like saying it makes sense to translate from Scottish to Received Pronounciation (or BBC English).

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4 hours ago, Wherearewegoingto said:

But Plattdeutsch isn't informal or colloquial use of language nor just an accent. It is a real dialect. More like Scottish. Using different words. For example: to speak - sprechen - schnacken. Partly it sounds like dutch. So it's maybe like saying it makes sense to translate from Scottish to Received Pronounciation (or BBC English).

 

 

Not quite sure what you mean by Scottish.  Scottish Gaelic, which some people describe as Scottish, is a language very distant from any form of English.  The Scottish dialect/accent of English varies from one part of Scotland to another.  Incidentally, if you want to wind a Scottish person up you can describe them, or almost anything else from Scotland, as "Scotch".

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20 hours ago, mgr said:

Hi all, Happy old Boxing Day,

 

I'm catching up on work while others 'sleep it off'. Well, Christmas is a bit exhausting.

 

What I really want to ask is -  (because I can't myself think of anything appropriate) - is there any way of translating Hochdeutsch? That is to say, it makes sense to 'translate' Plattdeutsch to Hochdeutsch but do you translate from colloquial English to the Queen's English? - Well hardly, if you're American, Australian, Canadian etc. Can anyone think of a general term for 'normally spoken' English as opposed to dialect or slang? I'm sure there is one, I just can't think of it at the moment.

 

I'd be grateful for suggestions. I just hope there's someone around today.

Cheers...

 

Hochdeutsch is just another word for Standarddeutsch.   https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standarddeutsch

 

Quote

Standarddeutsch, genauer Standardhochdeutsch, auch mehrdeutig Hochdeutsch und schweizerisch Schriftdeutsch genannt, ist das Ergebnis der Normung der deutschen Sprache.

 

Standard German, more precisely Standard High German, also known as ambiguous High German and Swiss written German, is the result of the standardization of the German language.

Deepl.com Translation

 

The equivalent in English would therefore presumably be Standard English.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_English

 

Quote

 

In an English-speaking country, Standard English (SE) is the variety of English that has undergone regularization and is associated with formal schooling, language assessment, and official print publications, such as public-service announcements and newspapers of record, etc.[1] "Standard" should be understood to refer to this process of regularization and not to minimal desirability (e.g., a standard of care) or interchangeability (e.g., a standard measure).[2] For example, there are substantial differences in the varieties that countries of the Anglosphere identify as "standard," as their different names suggest: in England and Wales, the term Standard English identifies British English, the Received Pronunciation accent, and the grammar and vocabulary of United Kingdom Standard English (UKSE). In Scotland, the variety is Scottish Standard English; in the United States the General American variety is thought of as the spoken standard; and in Australia, the standard English is General Australian.[3] Sociologically, as the standard language of the nation, Standard English is generally associated with education and sociolinguistic prestige, but is not inherently superior to other English dialects used by an Anglophone society.[4]


 

 

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It depends which country you’re in, as there is no globally approved English. Unlike in many other languages, there is no official single body of academics that guide and steer the language. English is sort of open source. To that end, what is “normally spoken” English? Who decides? 

 

In Britain, maybe Oxford/Queen’s/RP, although those are somewhat artificial sociolects. But anyway, versus regional or class dialects. In the US, probably just “standard” again in contrast to various regional dialects or ethnolects, like “black English”/AAVE, et al. In Jamaica for example, there is a strong contrast with proper English and using patois (or not, as the case may be). There has in recent decades been a cultural movement to pride up de cultcha! But before independence, patois was seriously looked down on by upper classes and professional types. Indian English is also its own thing for a few hundred years, but can be a little confusing and hard to understand at first for non-Indians.

 

Might want to check out some David Crystal videos on YouTube.

 

5 hours ago, Wherearewegoingto said:

But Plattdeutsch isn't informal or colloquial use of language nor just an accent. It is a real dialect.

 

This. It is its own thing, existing for centuries before German reunification. It still exists, though it is slowly dying out...

 

Just now, starkebogen said:

Not quite sure what you mean by Scottish.  

 

He probably means Scots, which is the proper name for the English variety. It evolved parallel from Sassenach/Saxon English. Has more Norse influence, as one example.

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Thanks everyone, thanks so much. What a wonderful discussion, an abundance of information with plenty of follow-up links, couldn't be better.

This has been a great help so thanks again. 

 

Oh, and a happy New Year when it comes - Berlin has decreed a partial 'Böllerverbot". I wonder how many Berliners are going to keep to it....

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1 hour ago, alderhill said:

He probably means Scots, which is the proper name for the English variety. It evolved parallel from Sassenach/Saxon English. Has more Norse influence, as one example.

 

 

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Just call it "standard English".

But be careful about calling Plattdeutsch/Low German a dialect. German linguists cannot to this day agree as to whether Low German ist a dialect of High German or whether the one is merely a variation of the other (I suspect it's probably the latter).

There is a similar debate concerning English and Scots.

And then there's Ulster Scots, but I digress...

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