Need legal advice for my friend

82 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

It's a good thing that you are speaking about a very tiny minority of people who come here. The vast majority are working and paying taxes just like you.

 

I am aware that only a tiny minority commits crimes. Above I was talking about criminals not unemployed. But there are a sizeable number of foreigners who don’t work. It’s still a minority but not tiny.

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49 minutes ago, Namu said:

 

I am aware that only a tiny minority commits crimes. Above I was talking about criminals not unemployed. But there are a sizeable number of foreigners who don’t work. It’s still a minority but not tiny.

 

You're German so you must read German. Try reading this article which was based on this study. 

 

tl;dr? UPSHOT: Foreigners contribute on average 3300€ more per year than they take out of the system.

 

You can bitch about minorities, but you should likely be looking to your own dirtbound*, undereducated compatriots in the former DDR for the source of the drain on your tax dollars.

 

*This is a regionally colloquial term in my home dialect for people who would rather starve in their hometown than move and find work.

 

ETA: I have corrected my inexcusable typo.

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55 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

oreigners contribute on average 3300€ more per year than they take out of the system.

Does that include the cost of imprisoning them ( 49 % of prison inmates in Bavaria are foreigners)?

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42 minutes ago, jeba said:

( 49 % of prison inmates in Bavaria are foreigners)?

 

And most of them come from the same country as TraceKira, who himself has already come into conflict with the law and demands corporal punishment here ... 

 

"Rumänen stellen den größten Teil der Insassen"

 

https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/bayern/Sprunghafter-Anstieg-Mehr-Auslaender-in-Bayerns-Gefaengnissen-id53515961.html

 

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5 hours ago, fraufruit said:
1 hour ago, AlexTr said:

 

You're German so you must read German. Try reading this article which was based on this study. 

 

tl;dr? UPSHOT: Foreigners contribute on average 3300€ more per year than they take out of the system.

 

You can bitch about minorities, but you should likely be looking to your own dirtbound*, undereducated compatriots in the former DDR for the source of the drain on your tax dollars.

 

*This is a regionally colloquial term in my home dialect for people who would rather starve in their hometown than move and find work.

 

ETA: I have corrected my inexcusable typo.

 

I wonder if there is any use in repeating myself? I was in the beginning talking about criminals not the unemployed. I also said that unemployed foreigners are a minority but not a tiny minority. I didn’t say that foreigners cost Germany more than they contribute. But thanks for the studies. I think similar arguments were raised during the discussion about Brexit in the UK.

 

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

Does that include the cost of imprisoning them ( 49 % of prison inmates in Bavaria are foreigners)?

 

Do you understand statistics ar all? If so, tell me why your number is meaningless in the context of this conversation.  If not, I am not taking you to raise like the folks on the real estate thread did. You are responsible for your own education. 

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11 hours ago, Namu said:

But in order to uphold the social loyality on which the German system is based, Germany needs to get much better in punishing people that do not live according to this social contract.

 

Does that include   VW, Daimler and BMW  or just some guy stealing food?

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4 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

Does that include   VW, Daimler and BMW  or just some guy stealing food?

I was too timid to make that point out loud, but I was thinking that too. 

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2 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

I was too timid to make that point out loud, but I was thinking that too. 

 

Timidity on TT is as rare as hypocrisy is in abundance.

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So I see.  I have never been on FB or Twitter or any other social media site.  It’s been a bit of a learning experience here on TT.  A thick skin seems to be in order.

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25 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

tell me why your number is meaningless in the context of this conversation

It isn´t - so how should I show you it is?

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12 hours ago, Namu said:

Agreed. But in order to uphold the social loyality on which the German system is based, Germany needs to get much better in punishing people that do not live according to this social contract. To me that means to deport thieves no matter how small the theft. 

Thankfully in a "Rechtsstaat" which Germany still is, there is a guiding principle along the lines of "the punishment must be proportional to the crime". 

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1 hour ago, BethAnnBitt said:

 

1 hour ago, catjones said:

 

Does that include   VW, Daimler and BMW  or just some guy stealing food?

Yes that includes VW, Daimler and BMW of course. And it is unfortunately not surprising that the responsible management has not been punished. I doubt they will

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24 minutes ago, Marianne013 said:

Thankfully in a "Rechtsstaat" which Germany still is, there is a guiding principle along the lines of "the punishment must be proportional to the crime". 

 

This principal sounds nice but is open to interpretation and needs to be defined. I think mostly this is used for extreme cases of punishment such as corporal punishment or torture. I know you mean that deportation for theft is too harsh. But I disagree ( unless the person would be deported into a war zone like Syria). But if the home country is peaceful why not?

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57 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

So I see.  I have never been on FB or Twitter or any other social media site.  It’s been a bit of a learning experience here on TT.  A thick skin seems to be in order.

Same here, Beth! Don´t do Facebook (that´s only for old people! ) and I don´t do Twitter - though I´m a twit! Don´t have Netflix or anything really. Don´t do any other social media sites. Just imagine spending your whole day asking people what they have just had for breakfast..no end to it!

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

It isn´t - so how should I show you it is?

 

You are responsible for your own education. 

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24 minutes ago, Namu said:

 

This principal sounds nice but is open to interpretation and needs to be defined. #

 

It is defined. Please start to close the gaps in your education with regard to the German laws. Start there: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafzumessung_(Deutschland)

 

Quote

 

I think mostly this is used for extreme cases of punishment such as corporal punishment or torture.

 

Nein. Das gilt uneingeschränkt, auch das ist Merkmal eines Rechtsstaats. 

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36 minutes ago, Namu said:

 

This principal sounds nice but is open to interpretation and needs to be defined. I think mostly this is used for extreme cases of punishment such as corporal punishment or torture. I know you mean that deportation for theft is too harsh. But I disagree ( unless the person would be deported into a war zone like Syria). But if the home country is peaceful why not?

What about someone who nicks a 2 euro wedge of cheese in a supermarket but is married and has kids and their centre of life in Germany? This reminds me of the penal colonies in Australia in the 19th century. " You nicked a loaf of bread...Aussieland for you."

That is surely different to a murderer or extremely violent person causing mayhem? Then good riddance.

 

If an extremely dangerous person is deported to his/her " unsafe " country of origin - their problem.

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18 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

It is defined. Please start to close the gaps in your education with regard to the German laws. Start there: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafzumessung_(Deutschland)

 

 

Nein. Das gilt uneingeschränkt, auch das ist Merkmal eines Rechtsstaats. 

 

I wasn't aware that deportation is based on criminal law. I always thought that deportations are administrative repercussions based on Verwaltungsrecht that follow after the punishment by a criminal court. Guess I was wrong.

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17 minutes ago, john g. said:

What about someone who nicks a 2 euro wedge of cheese in a supermarket but is married and has kids and their centre of life in Germany? This reminds me of the penal colonies in Australia in the 19th century. " You nicked a loaf of bread...Aussieland for you."

That is surely different to a murderer or extremely violent person causing mayhem? Then good riddance.

 

If an extremely dangerous person is deported to his/her " unsafe " country of origin - their problem.

 

They would be deported to their homecountry where their family and friends are, not to some deserted island where they know nobody and have ties to.

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