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Mathematics help needed

41 posts in this topic

15 minutes ago, Lavender Rain said:

 

Einstein, don't be rude and condescending.

Duckegg, don't be rude and condescending after a clear blunder.

 

Concerning the rule "  When the number to the right of the "4" is  5 or greater 94,999 is rounded UP to 95,000.": You tigh a knot into a childs brain when you explain it like that...

 

There comes the day when they have to round negative numbers, if you've hammered that UP and DOWN shite into their heads, you've got a problem.

 

-94999 becomes -90000, when you round to the nearest tenthousend, and is actually a higher number than the number in the beginning. Avoid that UP and DOWN while explaining.

 

Concerning "devide": Looka like you are way better in writing than some others in actually doing it...

 

Reading skills are also a nice thing, mixing up 1000 and 10000 might result in a job termination, you know. 

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9 minutes ago, LeonG said:

Does anybody know what the lower half is?  I could not even begin to guess at that.  

 

Like this:

 

   1000000 

-      71982

     410213

---------------

 

None of the examples here have a + or - before the last number.  Surely this is something the teacher has shown them and is possibly explained in the textbook but definitely nothing I've ever seen before.

 

 

And this is exactly why I shouldnt be faced with the resposibillity of teaching my Daughter "Wrong Mathematics"... 

I have sent a message to her mother to ask her to clarify... but you guessed it... NO REPLY!

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16 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

And this is exactly why I shouldnt be faced with the resposibillity of teaching my Daughter "Wrong Mathematics"... 

I have sent a message to her mother to ask her to clarify... but you guessed it... NO REPLY!

 

Have you asked your kid?  She must have been there when the teachers explained.  Even if she didn't pay full attention at the time, she might be able to give us a hint.  Her mother wouldn't have been in class with her either and has probably no clue what it's about.

 

Does she have other school work with her, textbook, workbook etc. where she's already done something similar?

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16 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

And this is exactly why I shouldnt be faced with the resposibillity of teaching my Daughter "Wrong Mathematics"... 

 

Youtube is full of vidoes on all math topics starting in Grundschule.  Some are awful.  But some helpful if you have forgotten stuff.  So for rounding perhaps

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INJi-21bsec

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30 minutes ago, LeonG said:

Like this:

 

   1000000 

-      71982

     410213

---------------

The "-------------" means that you have to add the numbers above that line.

 

"Runden" is what you then could do with the result.

 

Eine "Überschlagsrechnung" (I don't know the English term, something like "rough estimation" maybe, Lavenderrain probably does know that and might be helpful) is different, you round the numbers above the line, and add them to yield a result.

 

It's like standing in the line in the supermarket and having bought items for...

 

1,99€

3,99€

4,99€

 

... and you want a decent estimation what coins you want to fummel out of the wallet.

You'd do 2+4+5=11 in your head, rather than adding the numbers up to 10,97 to reach for 11€ from your wallet...

 

The tasks for the kid go definitely in that direction, but how it is exactly wanted by exactly that teacher... Sorry I don't know.

 

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9 minutes ago, LeonG said:

Does she have other school work with her, textbook, workbook etc. where she's already done something similar?

Exactly, can you upload a picture of those calculations that she actually has done in school? The Forum might then be able to figure out the expectations...

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29 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

And this is exactly why I shouldnt be faced with the resposibillity of teaching my Daughter "Wrong Mathematics"... 

I have sent a message to her mother to ask her to clarify... but you guessed it... NO REPLY!

 

Do you have the contact information for her teacher? Then you can go directly to the teacher and ask her to further assist your daughter or give you additional math resources to support your daughter's learning of math at home.

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7 minutes ago, franklan said:

The "-------------" means that you have to add the numbers above that line.

 

 

Yes, or subtract if it says minus but what confuses me is the lack of plus or minus in front of the bottom number.

 

Like this one:

 

  98.713
+63.219
+35.764
  75.219
-------------

 

So why put + in front of two of the numbers but not the last one?  Do we assume it's a plus too?

 

I think it's likely in the spirit of the rounding above, only guessing though, that the teacher is looking for an approximate like this:

 

100.000

+60.000

+40.000

  80.000

------------

 

But still not sure what do do with the 80.000 there.

 

Spidey, maybe somebody here has kids who are the same age and can help with the method.  If not, I'd say it's better to leave that half blank than to risk doing it wrong.  Otherwise you get to hear it from your ex.

 

You can ask the teacher or the nachhilfelehrer later on in case you get this again in the future.  Also suggest to your daughter that she make friends with a classmate who is good at math and bad at English.  They can help each other then.

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Ok... 

I have spoken to my neighbour and he says that if it Starts with a plus... the rest should be a Plus until otherwise stated.. ( Which kind of fucks with my head and the german "Punkt vor strich" rule)

 

@LR.. you know the full Story... do you really think that the mother will let me see Lillys school books or have contact to the teachers??  Really ?   :(

 

I have just spoken to her My ex and she says "Lilly knows what she is to do"   but sadly that doesnt help me to assist lilly... 

 

I suppose I should update the "Coping with mind games" thread...

 

 

 

 

 

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This might help. 

 

1.   Remove the signs.   Take the absolute value of the number.   Add the signs back.

 

So for -71982.     Take 71982.   Round it to 72000 for nearest thousand or 70000 for nearest 10 thousand.   Add the sign back to -72000 or -70000 as applicable.   This allows concentration on one operation at a time.

 

Some kids think of 5 as the midpoint between 1 and 10, but they don't put as much emphasis on 0.    It actually helps reinforce the concept if you draw out the groups of numbers

 

0, 1, 2, 3, 4  (five numbers)   0 - 4 round down to the floor

5, 6, 7, 8, 9  (five numbers)   5 - 9 round up to some word that rhymes with nine.  

 

If your daughter understands the rules, but the teacher wanted the numbers added first and then rounded, it will help her if she can demonstrate that she understands the procedure, but due to a lack of clarity, applied the steps of the procedure in a different order.   

 

Hope that helps.   Good luck. 

 

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I think balticus has got it, it's like a trick question to get the kids thinking. Forget the signs and put them back at the end.

After saying that I've had a massive blow up with my daughter this morning over her Maths homework. She's a stubborn little Pubetiere that won't listen and then tells me it's my fault even though the little S is the one who should do it.

 

Spiderpig, I empathise.

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20 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

@LR.. you know the full Story... do you really think that the mother will let me see Lillys school books or have contact to the teachers??  Really ?   :(

 

My last post had nothing to do with Lily's mother.  It was more about  if you're responsible for supporting your daughter's education like you are today and stumped perhaps you should have access to Lily's teacher via email or phone and a copy of her school books and other educational resources at your house you may need to support Lily's education now and for the future.

 

SP,  I thought you have joint custody of your daughter? Which would mean you have some responsibility for her education and with that responsibility why would you not have access to her teachers and school books?

 

Why do you need your ex for to allow you the best opportunity to support your daughter's education? Can't you just call the school yourself? Lily can tell you who her teachers are or would that cause too much trouble for you with your ex, but it's all about supporting Lily, right? Or try to work out a arrangement with her mother for you to better support Lily's education.   

 

You said you wanted to have a good relationship with your ex with good communication in support of your daughter her education is paramount. I know it take two people working together, but if not try to do what you have to do by going to her teachers yourself. 

 

What's the harm in that when you only want the best for your daughter's education?

 

Btw, with joint custody do you have the right to request from the school to convene a teacher conference yourself? If you think that may be necessary now or in the future to know exactly how Lily is doing in school and discuss with her teachers what you may find helpful for you to support your daughter's education?

 

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16 minutes ago, balticus said:

This might help. 

 

1.   Remove the signs.   Take the absolute value of the number.   Add the signs back.

 

So for -71982.     Take 71982.   Round it to 72000 for nearest thousand or 70000 for nearest 10 thousand.   Add the sign back to -72000 or -70000 as applicable.   This allows concentration on one operation at a time.

 

Some kids think of 5 as the midpoint between 1 and 10, but they don't put as much emphasis on 0.    It actually helps reinforce the concept if you draw out the groups of numbers

 

0, 1, 2, 3, 4  (five numbers)   0 - 4 round down to the floor

5, 6, 7, 8, 9  (five numbers)   5 - 9 round up to some word that rhymes with nine.  

 

If your daughter understands the rules, but the teacher wanted the numbers added first and then rounded, it will help her if she can demonstrate that she understands the procedure, but due to a lack of clarity, applied the steps of the procedure in a different order.   

 

Hope that helps.   Good luck. 

 

Lilly says that its only the the first block with the squiggly = signs that are round up or down...

 

The others are simple Addition or subtractions...  ( How the hell we are supposed to know that is beyond me)

 

 

@ LR...    of course I want to help Lilly... and yes, I have joint custody.. 

 

If I spoke directly to the school/Teacher, then her mother accuses me of going behind her back.. !  

 

I am not permitted to have contact with lilly outside of my "papa weekend" unless its convienient for her mother... Its a simple collect and drop off at weekends and I have never stepped foot in their apartment... Put I am permitted to put my hand deep in my pocket and pay for her mothers priviledge of taking her clothes shopping etc !   ( beleive me, I have tried everyway possible that wouldnt cause huge conflict)... 

 

I have asked her mother to help me so that I can point lilly in the right direction... She simply replied "Lilly knows what to do"...  Well, that doesnt help me one tiny bit!

I sent a picture of one of the questions to her and she replied "Use a calculator"....     As LeonG pointed out, there seemed to be a + or - sign missing... so a calculator was fuck all use to me. 

 

 

 

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The schools seem to change their teaching methods every now and then, which makes it difficult for older people with their outdated methods to help their kids or grandkids. Which class is Lilly in?

 

Here's a link to Maths for Grundschule from classes 1 - 4. It might be helpful. This is the page for class 4

https://www.grundschulkoenig.de/mathe/4-klasse/ with practice sheets for Runden und Überschlag:  https://www.grundschulkoenig.de/mathe/4-klasse/runden-und-ueberschlag/

 

Even if it doesn't help you for the moment, the webpage might be useful for later.

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2 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

I suppose part of my problem is not being able to read German that well... so I read it slowly and it tends to lose its intension..

 

*Sighs*...

 

You can direct me to as many German maths websites as you like... but as I said...  I struggle to read German. 

 

Franklan gave the answers that I understood and LeonG can see the problem that I have too!    Are the teachers too lazy to write an extra + or - ?

 

Even using a calculator, you need to use the +- signs etc.. 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

..  I struggle to read German.

 

 

You should probably do something about that. Would you like suggestions for online resources for individual study or would suggestions for working in a group environment be more helpfu?

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1 hour ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

You should probably do something about that. Would you like suggestions for online resources for individual study or would suggestions for working in a group environment be more helpfu?

Do you actually work with Germans Spiderpig, where you need to read and write in German?

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8 hours ago, French bean said:

Do you actually work with Germans Spiderpig, where you need to read and write in German?

 

I do work with Germans if I have to... but I do not write German without help from translators etc... 

 

My spoken German is realatively good... well, according to my friends it is... 

 

 

 

 

 

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