Expat Burnout

177 posts in this topic

On 12/14/2019, 12:25:59, alderhill said:

It's not just you're in Germany, but you're in a small town in Germany, in a corner known for being more insular at that.

 

You've got it now, that's the point of post. 

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On 12/14/2019, 1:50:59, Lavender Rain said:

 

Bamberg is no way "isolated" There's an ICE train 3 hours to Berlin and there's frequent trains to Wurzberg, Nurnberg, and direct to Frankfurt. It's 2 hours from Munich. How do you consider Bamberg to be "isolated"? 

 

Regarding too small, too small how? Are you referring to population or geographical area? 

 

 

Bamberg isn't isolated from that sense. You can easily get places. But it touches on it being too small because you have to travel if you really want to entertain yourself, from my perspective. 

 

Again, too small, too big, it's all perspective. From my perspective, 70k people is extremely small, coming from a metropolis of 4.5 million. 

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1 hour ago, freshtodeath said:

I am  a car person insofar that I enjoy the freedom of owning one (i.e not having to live in an extra small town or being slave to shuttle schedules, also Metro Detroit does not have good public transit) but you're moving the goal posts here.

 

There can be no 'moving goalposts' if you only provide small snippets of your backstory/reasonings upfront. As long as telepathy for internet strangers is down, readers fill in the blanks on their own. That's just how it is.

 

Quote

I never claimed to not be a car person. You tried to claim that I missed "flashy parts of big city life" and used me merely mentioning my car as justification for the assumption.

 

You can relax and rest assured, that was not the only reason. Do you not personally think Bamberg is boring? Is this a false assumption? Feel free to set the record straight.

 

Quote

But now it's about me being a car person and it causing trouble? Let's keep it in one spot here.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "causing trouble", but you're definitely overthinking it. If you are a car person or not, whatevs, but you mentioned it as if it were causing you grief. Comparing USAmerican car culture/regulations with car culture/regulations here is one of the things I've frequently heard from newbie Americans (and others) over the years. And on that front, admittedly I only have so much sympathy, so I hope you'll forgive my assumptions.

 

If you're stuck needing the car for work, but find it irksome or whatever, well tough luck right?

 

57 minutes ago, freshtodeath said:

You've got it now, that's the point of post. 

#firstworldproblems

 

Hope you can manage to enjoy something of your remaining time.

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Maybe you would prefer this quote?

 

His retreat into himself is not a final renunciation of the world, but a search for quietude, where alone it is possible for him to make his contribution to the life of the community. [Carl Jung “Psychological Typology,” ibid., par. 979.]

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I would say, do what you feel is best. You can always change your mind and come back to Germany. 

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15 hours ago, alderhill said:

 

There can be no 'moving goalposts' if you only provide small snippets of your backstory/reasonings upfront. As long as telepathy for internet strangers is down, readers fill in the blanks on their own. That's just how it is.

 

Moving goal posts is quite simple. I don't think you understand how it works. You made a statement based on an assumption. I falsified that assumption. You changed the statement to continue on the same topic, but from a different angle. Just facts. You don't need my whole backstory to move the goal posts on a super simple and weakly based assumption.

 

15 hours ago, alderhill said:

 Do you not personally think Bamberg is boring? Is this a false assumption? Feel free to set the record straight.

 

Lol well we probably have massively differing opinions on flashy big city life because trust me, Detroit is hardly flashy. And yeah you jumped to that conclusion on, as you said, "small snippets" of my backstory that in my opinion hardly scream flashy or "conspicuous consumption" as you so lovingly put. Secondly, I do find Bamberg boring. But that still does not fortify your snarky opinion about missing flashiness. Missing a bigger city with better entertainment? 100%. Your snarky adjectives? Not really.

 

15 hours ago, alderhill said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "causing trouble", but you're definitely overthinking it. If you are a car person or not, whatevs, but you mentioned it as if it were causing you grief. Comparing USAmerican car culture/regulations with car culture/regulations here is one of the things I've frequently heard from newbie Americans (and others) over the years. And on that front, admittedly I only have so much sympathy, so I hope you'll forgive my assumptions.

 

I honestly don't even know what to do with this. It's a non sequitur to anything I have said in this thread. 

15 hours ago, alderhill said:

#firstworldproblems

 

#sickburn

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As someone who grew up in the countryside, I get very tired of the urban-centric mentality so many people have. Why are people addicted to living in close proximity to others, who in most cases they'll have nothing to do with anyway? I understand that city living offers some conveniences but it has plenty of downfalls too, the higher cost of living being the most obvious one.

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On 11/12/2019, 13:56:12, freshtodeath said:

 

I appreciate the detailed response, especially from a long term expat. In another expat forum, same post, all the long term expats just told me I was a pessimist, I was insecure, I should have a higher mindset (wherever you go, there you are got thrown around), and just simply a bad expat. Didn't really give any helpful advice other than being an expat in Bamberg wasn't for me. Stop the presses. It's like they took offense to someone who didn't fall in love with the expat life.

 

 

OP, in retrospect, would living in Nuremburg and commuting to Bamberg have been a better option? Looking at Google maps, it looks an ok commute to me. (Sorry if you have already answered this question)

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9 minutes ago, pmd said:

 

OP, in retrospect, would living in Nuremburg and commuting to Bamberg have been a better option? Looking at Google maps, it looks an ok commute to me. (Sorry if you have already answered this question)

 

I don't work in Bamberg. I work 40 minutes by car north of Bamberg...so unfortunately not...because 40 minutes is already pushing my limit for commuting. I never did more than 20-25 minutes in Detroit. 

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1 hour ago, freshtodeath said:

Moving goal posts is quite simple.

As I said, you're still looking into this waaaaay too deeply, and obviously too personally. You might need a thicker skin if you want to engage with strangers on the internet, especially on TT which is (like it or not) a very snarky place sometimes. (Probably a by-product of being in Germany too long...) If you provide scant details, readers fill in the blanks or ask for more (as we have done). If you provide more details later, that gives readers something new to work with. Does that really need explaining? It is not "moving the goalposts", except if you have paranoid fantasies.

 

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I falsified that assumption.

The word you want is "corrected". Falsified in your use is awkward and implies you made the assumption (which are by their definition not necessarily true) even more false.

 

Quote

You changed the statement to continue on the same topic, but from a different angle.

Come on, you can't be this new to the internet.

 

Quote

Lol well we probably have massively differing opinions on flashy big city life because trust me, Detroit is hardly flashy.

How would we know, since your first mention of Detroit was your last post? None of us are mindreaders.

 

At least we can agree Detroit is pretty grim. Gotta give some (legacy) love to the Red Wings though.

 

Quote

And yeah you jumped to that conclusion on, as you said, "small snippets" of my backstory that in my opinion hardly scream flashy or "conspicuous consumption" as you so lovingly put.

Sorry, but the first impressions I got from your original posts were of a spoiled whininess. 

 

Quote

Secondly, I do find Bamberg boring.

Right, so, case closed.

 

Quote

But that still does not fortify your snarky opinion about missing flashiness. Missing a bigger city with better entertainment? 100%. Your snarky adjectives? Not really.

I am sure you'll survive. How do you think longtime Bamberg residents reading your posts are going to cope??

 

This enough postgame wrap up for you?

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20 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

As someone who grew up in the countryside, I get very tired of the urban-centric mentality so many people have. Why are people addicted to living in close proximity to others, who in most cases they'll have nothing to do with anyway? I understand that city living offers some conveniences but it has plenty of downfalls too, the higher cost of living being the most obvious one.

 

That's odd you get tired of other people's mentality. I am not tired of your desire for the quiet countryside, it's just not for me. 

 

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2 minutes ago, alderhill said:

As I said, you're still looking into this waaaaay too deeply

 

Lol. Moving the goal posts is a very simple concept. There's nothing deep here about it. You probably don't even realize you did it. *shrugs*. Most people don't realize when they engage in logical fallacy and other argumentative falsehoods. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, alderhill said:

 

How do you think longtime Bamberg residents reading your posts are going to cope??

I hope new expats  see this and know that Bamberg is a small uni-town and if they enjoy a certain lifestyle they should know what they are getting into. 

 

Longtime residents will be fine. They know what the city is and they probably enjoy it for the same reasons I don't. 

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23 minutes ago, alderhill said:

(How would we know, since your mention of Detroit was your last post? 

 

 

 

Inaccurate. 

 

23 minutes ago, alderhill said:

 None of us are mindreaders.

You apparently don't read very well either. 

 

1st mention:

On 12/13/2019, 2:14:18, freshtodeath said:

 

Yeah I should have known. Before this, I thought my area wasn't "big market" enough, basically because it wasn't Chicago or New York haha. How ignorant of me. So I should have known that if I was feeling some dissatisfaction (that I now know was completely misplaced) in my home city that moving to one a fraction of the size was going to cause issues. 

 

That all being said I would do it again. The travel has been amazing. Having this much time to myself has really let me grow as person or "find myself" if you will. All the growth (monetarily as well :) ) I wouldn't trade back. Not only that, I so much more appreciate what home has to offer. 

 

I would also recommend your daughter experience real city life as well otherwise she might regret not trying it. I do. Detroit is awesome with much to do and amazing food but it's so spread out and only in the last (literally) couple years can you experience actual city life there. I somewhat regret not living in Chicago for a time. I thought Bamberg being a livable city I'd get my city life fix but that was ignorant of me. Except for the lack of parking and nonsense tickets all the time. Got that part down. 

 

2nd mention:

On 12/13/2019, 4:13:31, freshtodeath said:


Lol conspicuous consumption? Designer clothes? What? Is it too much to ask to have bars and clubs that don’t cater to children and think playing *NSYNC and Backstreet Boys every weekend is proper music? Thing is, I have settled down quite a bit, just not married with kids. That being said, outside of a couple restaurants, there just simply isn’t good entertainment options in Bamberg. Like really not all. I wouldn’t be so hard on the place if there was one place I really enjoyed. Plattenladen is close but it’s too small and the sound system weak. 
 

I never came here expecting NYC lmao. I didn’t even expect Detroit. But I wasn’t expecting a complete lack of worthwhile options and a completely lacking young professionals scene. 
 

I also never used the term Hicksville. But Bamberg is boring to me. I didn’t have to convince myself or anyone else of that. It simply is by comparable measures to many places. 

 

 

I think by this point (four days ago lol) the context is clear I am referencing Detroit. 

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37 minutes ago, alderhill said:

 

37 minutes ago, alderhill said:

 

 

The word you want is "corrected". Falsified in your use is awkward and implies you made the assumption (which are by their definition not necessarily true) even more false.

 

 

So cute how you're trying to be pretentious and you still get it wrong.

 

falsify

/ˈfɔːlsɪfʌɪ,ˈfɒlsɪfʌɪ/

verb

verb: falsify; 3rd person present: falsifies; past tense: falsified; past participle: falsified; gerund or present participle: falsifying

1.

alter (information, a document, or evidence) so as to mislead.

"a laboratory which was alleged to have falsified test results"

 

2.

prove (a statement or theory) to be false.

"the hypothesis is falsified by the evidence"

 

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12 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

Maybe you would prefer this quote?

 

His retreat into himself is not a final renunciation of the world, but a search for quietude, where alone it is possible for him to make his contribution to the life of the community. [Carl Jung “Psychological Typology,” ibid., par. 979.]

 

have you been taking lessons from alderhill?

 

You have so far provided no actual objective discussion that confirms your theory, just a couple of quotes that have been offered with no context nor explanation for what exactly is meant.  Do you know exactly what Jung was referring to when he used the word "quietude"?  He uses this term a lot to refer to an inward looking mental state - something that could culminate in a sort of of meditation. You assume he means a literally quiet environment, yet ignore the parts about "retreating into himself" which can actually be done anywhere, any time.

 

which Jung stated himself:  

as I have already emphasized more than once, introversion and extraversion 
are not characters at all, but mechanisms , which can, as 
it were, be inserted or disconnected at will.

and Jung's definition of introversion:

 

34. Introversion means a turning inwards of the 
libido ( q.v .), whereby a negative relation of subject to 
object is expressed. Interest does not move towards the 
object, but recedes towards the subject. Everyone whose 
attitude is introverted thinks, feels, and acts in a way that 
clearly demonstrates that the subject is the chief factor 
of motivation while the object at most receives only a 
secondary value. 

but to be abundantly clear that your quote is really just a soundbyte, if you will, here is the context of that sentence from the original text:

 

"In spite of these peculiarities the introvert is by no means a social loss.  His retreat into himself is not a final renunciation of the world but a search for quietude, where alone it is possible for him to make his contribution to the life of the community.  This type of person is the victim of numerous misunderstandings - not unjustly, for he actually invites them.  Nor can he be acquitted of taking secret delight in mystification, and that being misunderstood gives him a certain satisfaction since it reaffirms his pessimistic outlook.  That being so, it is easy to see why he is accused of being proud, obstinate, selfish, conceited, cranky and whatnot..."

 

you agree with his analysis?

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

have you been taking lessons from alderhill?

 

You have so far provided no actual objective discussion that confirms your theory, just a couple of quotes that have been offered with no context nor explanation for what exactly is meant.  Do you know exactly what Jung was referring to when he used the word "quietude"?  He uses this term a lot to refer to an inward looking mental state - something that could culminate in a sort of of meditation. You assume he means a literally quiet environment, yet ignore the parts about "retreating into himself" which can actually be done anywhere, any time.

 

which Jung stated himself:  


as I have already emphasized more than once, introversion and extraversion 
are not characters at all, but mechanisms , which can, as 
it were, be inserted or disconnected at will.

and Jung's definition of introversion:

 


34. Introversion means a turning inwards of the 
libido ( q.v .), whereby a negative relation of subject to 
object is expressed. Interest does not move towards the 
object, but recedes towards the subject. Everyone whose 
attitude is introverted thinks, feels, and acts in a way that 
clearly demonstrates that the subject is the chief factor 
of motivation while the object at most receives only a 
secondary value. 

but to be abundantly clear that your quote is really just a soundbyte, if you will, here is the context of that sentence from the original text:

 

"In spite of these peculiarities the introvert is by no means a social loss.  His retreat into himself is not a final renunciation of the world but a search for quietude, where alone it is possible for him to make his contribution to the life of the community.  This type of person is the victim of numerous misunderstandings - not unjustly, for he actually invites them.  Nor can he be acquitted of taking secret delight in mystification, and that being misunderstood gives him a certain satisfaction since it reaffirms his pessimistic outlook.  That being so, it is easy to see why he is accused of being proud, obstinate, selfish, conceited, cranky and whatnot..."

 

you agree with his analysis?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, given that Jung is the one who first definied Introversion, then yeah, I think it is really relevant.  Jung doesn't really talk much about introversion as strictly social interaction but stimulation of all types (including social, but not exclusively) 

 

Yes, I did post a couple of quotes.  I could fill the page with quotes and links if you would like. Unfortunately, I also have other things to do and do not really want to waste my time to satisfy some argumentative person on the internet who has a compulsive need to be right.  

 

Since you like to ask "Fangfragen" then I will also ask you - according to your definition of introversion, what is the difference between introversion and social anxiety (or shyness for that matter)?

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Why don't you all get together in this village and have a few beers or whatever to get all this sorted out? In the meantime, I would suggest to the moderators that they open a new thread. Any suggestions for a title? Mine would be rather rude, I'm afraid.

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19 hours ago, freshtodeath said:

From my perspective, 70k people is extremely small, coming from a metropolis of 4.5 million. 

Eventually, it looks like the folks of that other forum (as mentioned by you in your initial post on this thread) were quite right when they suggested that "being an expat in Bamberg wasn't for you".

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