President Donald J. Trump

2,497 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, balticus said:

 

While the left is clueless, most of them and most Europeans have missed the shale revolution and the fact that the US is a net exporter of oil now.   Keeping the world energy supply stable is no longer a top prio for the US and some idiotic countries have so egregiously underfunded their militaries over the past 50 years that they won't be able to secure energy supplies.   Oh well.   

 

So you're admitting that the last Republican administration only invaded Iraq to secure oil resources. Interesting.

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1 hour ago, Chocky said:

 

So you're admitting that the last Republican administration only invaded Iraq to secure oil resources. Interesting.

 

The US would fight to keep oil flowing for the world economy.    The US Navy keeps shipping lanes safe for all countries.   

 

The only thing scarier than the US acting as world's policeman is the US NOT acting as world's policeman. 

 

Most Europeans do not understand what they have been getting for free and countries like Germany, despite being warned since the Clinton administration to spend more on defense, will be caught flat footed when they need to assume responsibility for their own security. 

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24 minutes ago, balticus said:

Most Europeans do not understand what they have been getting for free and countries like Germany,

 

Most Europeans are not gullible enough to think that the United States ever does anything out of sheer altruism. Also, if you were familiar at all with Germany's history, you might understand there are 'other reasons' for this country not wanting to give the impression of aggressively expanding its military.

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50 minutes ago, Chocky said:

 

Most Europeans are not gullible enough to think that the United States ever does anything out of sheer altruism.

 

That may be true, but many are unable to comprehend that their own European interests might be best served by prioritizing cooperation with the US whether US interests are altruistic or hypocritical.

50 minutes ago, Chocky said:

Also, if you were familiar at all with Germany's history, you might understand there are 'other reasons' for this country not wanting to give the impression of aggressively expanding its military.

 

So Germany cannot be counted on to meet its commitments.  

 

Germany is at the mercy of Erdogan and Putin in both Syria and Libya because it has no negotiating power.   The US might not act as policeman.  It's expensive and the US is now a net exporter of oil.  Sorry EU, take care of your own problems.

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6 minutes ago, balticus said:

That may be true, but many are unable to comprehend that their own European interests might be best served by prioritizing cooperation with the US whether US interests are altruistic or hypocritical.

 

Can you give examples?

 

7 minutes ago, balticus said:

Germany is at the mercy of Erdogan and Putin in both Syria and Libya because it has no negotiating power. 

 

No negotiating power except the 180 million € in trade with Turkey, and 263 million € in trade with Russia last year, not including the hundreds of millions of Euros Germany has invested in manufacturing in those countries..

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I think Europe is learning pretty quickly that the US under Trump cannot be depended upon. The French were always cynical about American and British intentions and the Germans have just had a massive increase in defence spending.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51475892.

 

The only numpties seem to be the British Gov't that still believe in the Special Relationship. Even the UK Chief of the Staff has warned on several occasions about the resurgence of Russia and the need to defend against traditional threats as well as new but hey why should the Tories listen to someone who isn't looking at how to make money.

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24 minutes ago, Chocky said:

Can you give examples?

Trade, security, energy security. 

 

The US Navy protects the world's shipping lanes and has naval power close to 7 times the rest of the world combined.  Countries like China and Germany which ship a lot and import oil via tankers do not pay protection fees.

24 minutes ago, Chocky said:

No negotiating power except the 180 million € in trade with Turkey, and 263 million € in trade with Russia last year, not including the hundreds of millions of Euros Germany has invested in manufacturing in those countries..

 

Million?  

 

Anyway, look at the trade to determine who needs who.

 

Russia and Turkey completely ran over Germany in the negotiations.  

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1 minute ago, balticus said:

Trade, security, energy security. 

 

I meant examples of the people who are unable to comprehend that their own European interests might be best served by prioritizing cooperation with the US 

 

3 minutes ago, balticus said:

Russia and Turkey completely ran over Germany in the negotiations.  

 

Sure they did, when Germany's economy is larger than both those countries' combined :rolleyes:

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41 minutes ago, French bean said:

I think Europe is learning pretty quickly that the US under Trump cannot be depended upon. The French were always cynical about American and British intentions...

 

Steinmeier opened the Munich Security Conference with a speech in which he declared that Germany and the EU should not live under the illusion that the US pullback from defending European interests is going to change with a different administration. 

 

Hard to convince the German public after saturating them with anti-Trump agitprop.

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Just now, Chocky said:

 

I meant examples of the people who are unable to comprehend that their own European interests might be best served by prioritizing cooperation with the US 

 

Anti-American sentiment has been rife in the 20 years I have been in and out of Germany.

Just now, Chocky said:

 

Sure they did, when Germany's economy is larger than both those countries' combined :rolleyes:

 

Germany has little influence.  Could you explain which concessions it gained from the parties involved in Libya?

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17 minutes ago, balticus said:

 

Anti-American sentiment has been rife in the 20 years I have been in and out of Germany.

 

OK fine, so that's like, your opinion.

 

18 minutes ago, balticus said:

Germany has little influence.  Could you explain which concessions it gained from the parties involved in Libya?

 

Again, you don't seem capable of looking at Germany's position through the prism of its own history on the world stage. Germany's only role in Libya is to keep the peace, it is not trying to colonise that country for the purposes of economic expansion, like Russia.

 

26 minutes ago, balticus said:

Hard to convince the German public after saturating them with anti-Trump agitprop.

 

Aha, looks like we've discovered the subject of your motivated reasoning.

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17 minutes ago, Chocky said:

 

OK fine, so that's like, your opinion.

 

True.  Do you disagree?

17 minutes ago, Chocky said:

Again, you don't seem capable of looking at Germany's position through the prism of its own history on the world stage. Germany's only role in Libya is to keep the peace, it is not trying to colonise that country for the purposes of economic expansion, like Russia.

 

It did not restrain Russia or Turkey one bit.  Who said anything about colonizing Libya?  

17 minutes ago, Chocky said:

 

Aha, looks like we've discovered the subject of your motivated reasoning.

 

The problem is that Trump may raise some valid concerns but if Germany reflexively rejects anything he proposes simply because Germans hate Trump, they will be worse off.  

 

On the Brexit thread I am basically making the same set of arguments from a different angle.   

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3 hours ago, balticus said:

Hard to convince the German public after saturating them with anti-Trump agitprop.

Trump's been pretty good at saturating them with anti Trump feelings without help from anyone else.

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Trump slamming down the phone on Boris Johnson doesn't bode well for the UK although we are talking about the EU here. Punishment will follow as always.

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6 hours ago, balticus said:

The US would fight to keep oil flowing for the world economy.    The US Navy keeps shipping lanes safe for all countries.

Hahahahaha.

Yer right they do it for the world not for themselves.If it didn`t benefit them then they wouldn`t do it.

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4 hours ago, balticus said:

The US Navy protects the world's shipping lanes and has naval power close to 7 times the rest of the world combined. 

Yep but if they stop doing it they`re going to have to scale down their navy and can you imagine how well that would go down with Americans.

Also they do it to project their power as a nation not just to protect the shipping lanes.

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13 hours ago, BelleFaster said:

A very interesting read. 

I’ve Been a Democrat for 20 Years. Here’s What I Experienced at Trump’s Rally in New Hampshire.

http://archive.is/Q56Xe

Although I think Trump is a c**t there is an awful lot of hatred for non Sanders supporters from Sanders supporters.

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9 hours ago, Keleth said:

Hahahahaha.

Yer right they do it for the world not for themselves.If it didn`t benefit them then they wouldn`t do it.

 

This perfectly demonstrates what i attempted to explain to Chocky.     You live and work in Germany and you do not need to pay for protection of ships importing goods into or exporting goods out of Germany and whether the motivation is pure or otherwise, you and Germany as a whole benefit big-time.    If Germany tries to lowball its defense contributions or continues with trade terms which are not equal, it risks losing this type of protection even faster.  

 

9 hours ago, Keleth said:

Yep but if they stop doing it they`re going to have to scale down their navy and can you imagine how well that would go down with Americans.

Also they do it to project their power as a nation not just to protect the shipping lanes.

 

They can simply deploy less.    If you noticed during the last flare up between Iran and SA when Iran sent a missile into a Saudi Arabian refinery, the US stepped back and told France and the US that they could protect their own tankers in the Persian Gulf.    Most Europeans probably don't know that such tasks were taken care of by the US in the past.   It isn't something think about.   

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14 hours ago, Chocky said:

Again, you don't seem capable of looking at Germany's position through the prism of its own history on the world stage. Germany's only role in Libya is to keep the peace, it is not trying to colonise that country for the purposes of economic expansion, like Russia.

 

MSC Chair Ischinger:

 

https://www.dw.com/en/msc-chairman-points-out-unforgivable-failures/av-52377910

 

 

 

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