How much is enough for retirement?

[seeking 139]

I read somewhere that if one has the equivalent of cash, stocks and  bonds (not including real estate and debt) 200x the average annual salary in the city you live, you are rich.

How to find out what is "average" annual salary? In Munich, e.g.

[dj_jay_smith 3,261]

6 minutes ago, seeking said:

I read somewhere that if one has the equivalent of cash, stocks and  bonds (not including real estate and debt) 200x the average annual salary in the city you live, you are rich.

How to find out what is "average" annual salary? In Munich, e.g.

 

 

Google!

 

https://www.tz.de/muenchen/stadt/muenchen-ort29098/jeder-dritte-ist-gutverdiener-so-viel-gehalt-bekommen-muenchner-11866084.html

 

Quote

4169 Euro brutto haben die Münchner im Jahr 2017 durchschnittlich verdient

 

4169 = 50,028 per year.

 

x200 = 10,005,600 euros.

 

 

But what has this got to do with retirement.

 

[seeking 139]

4 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

But what has this got to do with retirement.

 

 

>>>  if one has the equivalent of cash, stocks and  bonds
then one can retire comfortably. It may just be a thumb rule. I have to look deeper into this rule. Thanks.

[john g. 28,123]

Good evening, seeking! I looked at your profile just now and it says you were  born in 1960. So surely the average salary doesn´t count where you live but what you have put by for  retirement plus, maybe, where you might want to live when you retire. Is India an option? Lower cost of living?

And maybe the issue of your health later on?

[RedMidge 5,142]

Factors you need to assess- do you own home/ have mortgage/ rent?

What is your debt load and what are monthly expenses?

Plans for retirement ? Travel? Hobbies?

[optimista 3,582]

The stock market has done me absolutely no favours at all in a quarter of a century. My capital is just about the same now as it was when I invested it 25 years ago... And how does one calculate future inflation?

[catjones 695]

49 minutes ago, optimista said:

The stock market has done me absolutely no favours at all in a quarter of a century. My capital is just about the same now as it was when I invested it 25 years ago... And how does one calculate future inflation?

 

Yikes!  Given the all-time-highs, you'd have to try really hard to fail in a booming market.

 

Advice:  Do the opposite of what you are doing.

[optimista 3,582]

20 hours ago, catjones said:

Advice:  Do the opposite of what you are doing.

 

When your capital has shrunk dramatically - think market crashes immediately after purchase - you don't sell... I just had to wait two decades for the rise...

[seeking 139]

On 11/15/2019, 5:28:09, seeking said:

I read somewhere that if one has the equivalent of cash, stocks and  bonds (not including real estate and debt) 200x the average annual salary in the city you live, you are rich.

He said this 200x rule is from the Torah, the Jewish book. May be in the book of numbers? My friend is a wealthy investment consultant from India. He is a UK citizen, splits his time between UK and Switzerland.  

[fraufruit 29,264]

Oh lordy. 

 

You might want to find a whole other financial adviser. That guy is a nutter.

[mtbiking 975]

On 11/15/2019, 8:00:45, optimista said:

The stock market has done me absolutely no favours at all in a quarter of a century. My capital is just about the same now as it was when I invested it 25 years ago... And how does one calculate future inflation?

Exactly in what did you invest? Japanese stock? Bubbly internet stocks? About every major market index is much higher now than it was 25 years ago. Are you counting with dividends? Just one dollar invested 25 years ago in a SP500 index found is worth more than 6 today. 🤨
 

On 11/15/2019, 5:28:09, seeking said:

I read somewhere that if one has the equivalent of cash, stocks and  bonds (not including real estate and debt) 200x the average annual salary in the city you live, you are rich.

How to find out what is "average" annual salary? In Munich, e.g.

That’s crazy.

[robinson100 11,608]

I haven`t got a clue how much is "enough", but then, it will be different for every one of us!

 

What I do know is that the earlier you start making pension provisions, the better and easier it will be to have the magic sum of "enough"!

 

At least by posting about pensions, it shows that many of us are thinking about them and trying to be prepared for when we finally retire - it`s the ones who don prepare themselves that I worry about!

 

 

[seeking 139]

7 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Oh lordy. 

 

You might want to find a whole other financial adviser. That guy is a nutter.

Read many of your posts. I don't ever recall you posting such..err.. compliments:-)) I will not tell him. I must add, Naagendra is a trusted fund manager. I will tell you more if I see more facts in his posts which are relevant to this thread. 

[mtbiking 975]

2 hours ago, seeking said:

Read many of your posts. I don't ever recall you posting such..err.. compliments:-)) I will not tell him. I must add, Naagendra is a trusted fund manager. I will tell you more if I see more facts in his posts which are relevant to this thread. 

you see, there are so many ways to refute this crazy statement, that’s hardly worth the bother. But anyway:

- a household with a net worth of “merely” €900,000 (including property) already belongs to the top 5% wealthiest in Germany. Source: Bundesbank https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/blob/794130/d523cb34074622e1b4cfa729f12a1276/mL/2019-04-vermoegensbefragung-data.pdf

 

- €10 Million invested would, at a measly 3% per year, generate a mere €25,000 income per month of passive income. In reality more. To define rich as only beyond this point is, well, crazy.  A fifth of this and a paid off home is enough for a family to live quite well and never have to work again in their lives, even in Munich. So even by a far more stringent definition of rich than the Bundesbank €2,000,000 in liquid assets is still plenty of rich in Germany.

[mtbiking 975]

2 hours ago, seeking said:

Read many of your posts. I don't ever recall you posting such..err.. compliments:-)) I will not tell him. I must add, Naagendra is a trusted fund manager. I will tell you more if I see more facts in his posts which are relevant to this thread. 

by the way, “trusted” and “fund manager” should almost never be used in the same phrase, the exception being “he can be trusted to get rich at your expense”.

[optimista 3,582]

Halleluja to that statement.

[Boggsdollocks 203]

...That one is only poor
Only if they choose to be...

- Dolly Parton

 

It’s always useful to have a few £$¥€ around, but it’s not always the shiniest things that are worth the most.

[slammer 317]

Shoot, how much for retirement? How long is a length of string?

I know that I am going to be poor in my dotage, there was never enough to put away regardless on how much I tried to save. It just never happened

[catjones 695]

3 hours ago, slammer said:

how much for retirement?

 

It's actually not difficult to get in the ballpark.

 

Take your current annual expenses (almost all will continue into retirement) and subtract your expected annual pension(s).  Take the remainder and divide by .05 (5% average return on S&P, NASDAQ).  The result will be the necessary size of your nest-egg required to pay for your expected expenses. 

 

45.000 - 20.000 = 25.000 / .05 = 500.000

[MikeMelga 4,014]

On 11/15/2019, 5:36:56, dj_jay_smith said:

4169 = 50,028 per year.

 

x200 = 10,005,600 euros.

Sounds to me well beyond the "rich" threshold, despite being a hard thing to define. I would say anyone with a net worth over 3M€ in Munich is definitely rich.