Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

1,959 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, arsenal21 said:

 

You haven't done your research Mike. Volkswagen is already in the insurance business. In fact, it's the biggest motor insurer in Germany.

 

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Versicherungsdienst

 

VW already makes a lot of money from finance. In fact VW Financial Services has revenue and profit several times the size of Tesla's entire revenue.

Sure, and Japanese and Korean conglomerates have different business areas. That's not the point. Those are traditional services. We are talking about innovative services around a car, like entertainment, robotaxi, FSD. Or the same services with higher margins.

 

1 hour ago, arsenal21 said:

Tesla has a plan to sell insurance, but its competitive advantage is minimal and so far it has made inroads only in California, where it's not even an insurer, but a broker.

Its competitive advantage is massive. It can data mine the entire fleet in real time. It can individually target an insurance for each driver, depending on driving habits. And it can even validate claims by using the 9 cameras.

VW does not have a single car that can do this kind of telemetry.

 

1 hour ago, arsenal21 said:

Sure there is also money in games and entertainment but there are also market incumbents with deep pockets who will also want a piece of the action. 

Sure, they will come. But as of 2021 there isn't a single one offering anything similar. Most are still struggling with basic infotainment. VW had to delay iD3 for months because of SW, and I've read it's still crap. Eventually they will get it right. Problem is, the leader is a moving target.

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13 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Not true, this Bitcoin bullshit is an example where I clearly say it's BAD! And inconsistent with their mission.

 

Inconsistent with their mission.  Let me guess, because they "waste" electricity.   Just again, you showing you do not understand the very basics of cryptos.

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7 hours ago, Krieg said:

Inconsistent with their mission.  Let me guess, because they "waste" electricity.   Just again, you showing you do not understand the very basics of cryptos.

So where is that electricity spending going to? Where are those millions of computers, GPUs and ASICS going to?

You are the one detached from real life.

It's a big environmental disaster, not only on electricity usage, but also electronics.

 

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By comparison, one Bitcoin transaction had the same energy footprint as 80,000 Visa transactions in 2018. Now a single Bitcoin transaction uses the same electricity to run 453,000 Visa transactions

For you nerds to keep playing your liberal "no censorship", "hedge against inflation" game and for criminals to keep using crypto, Bitcoin and the others consume almost the same amount of energy than ALL other cloud computers in the world, who actually provide useful services!

Maybe I don't understand the basics of cryptos, but you don't understand the basics of math.

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5 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

So where is that electricity spending going to? Where are those millions of computers, GPUs and ASICS going to?

You are the one detached from real life.

It's a big environmental disaster, not only on electricity usage, but also electronics.

 

 

Because I am a very nice person, I will try to do my best to explain you this in a short way, Crypto-Currencies are a complicated subject so I can't write everything here, plus it is not like I know everything.

 

You have to think that Crypto currencies target is to democratise banking, so in a way they are replacing banks, so it is expected that they is some cost in running the banks of the new world.   You, like 99.999% of the population who know that Cryptos exist think that mining the cryptos is just wasting electricity finding the new Bitcoin, which it is slightly wrong.   You mine blocks (not currency) and because it is an intensive job you are compensated with some Crypto for your job so long there is still new Crypto to find in that currency.   But the mining has another more important function, to validate transactions.  So when you move around crypto the mining process is the first validation of the transaction, then the validation is replicated in the blockchain and it is up to both parties to decide how many replications is enough to consider the transaction done.   Miners receive a fee for validating the transactions they include in every block.   For Bitcoin mining is the consensus algorithm, so mining is the Proof of Work.

 

Remember that BTC was the first successful crypto, but it does not mean it is perfect.  Proof of Work was OK as the first attempt, but it is of course not optimal because it uses electricity, so the next step was to move out of Proof of Work.   But changing BTC has been proven to be difficult because people are scared that doing changes to the crypto that is used as reference for other cryptos might damage the market, Bitcoin is the US dollar of the crypto-world.   But in the mean time other cryptos moved and implemented other consensus algorithms that do not use electricity, like Proof of Stake which is basically you put your crypto in a dormant blocked state for certain amount of time and you are later on rewarded with new crypto when a new block is created and therefore more transactions can be validated, you might as well receive transaction fees for your help.   In the normal world Staking your crypto would be the equivalent to putting your money in a TEF.

 

In the mean time problems have arised because cryptos are still work in progress.  Ethereum, which is the second biggest Crypto has been having multiple problems, no one expected the dramatic increase in transactions that started in 2019 and sky rocketed in 2020.  So there were too many transactions to be validated and mining was already hard, so Ethereum originally implemented auctioning the transaction fees when the mining is not fast enough, this brought chaos because the transaction fees sky-rocketed because the miners will choose the transactions what offer more fees first.   Ridiculous nonsense is happening like having to pay $30 transaction fees when you buy something that costs $5, making Ethereum not viable as a day to day currency.   Ethereum was forked to version 2.0 to move to Proof of Stake and later in the future it should join the 1.0 version but things are not happening as fast as it should be.

 

Yes, cryptos have problems, but your comments about them are very cringy because you clearly have no idea about what you are talking about.  You just repeat the FUD again and again and again.   Like the EV haters do, which is ironic.

 

I hope you appreciate I took the time to explain you this, I over simplified everything of course.   

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28 minutes ago, Krieg said:

You have to think that Crypto currencies target is to democratise banking, so in a way they are replacing banks, so it is expected that they is some cost in running the banks of the new world. 

First bad argument: you are spending energy upfront in the very low (or zero) chance it replaces banking. What if in 2 years everybody decides Bitcoin is not the solution and move to another crypto? Can you imagine the waste?

Second bad argument is that you think banks only do transactions and hold value.

 

28 minutes ago, Krieg said:

In the mean time problems have arised because cryptos are still work in progress.  Ethereum, which is the second biggest Crypto has been having multiple problems, no one expected the dramatic increase in transactions that started in 2019 and sky rocketed in 2020.  So there were too many transactions to be validated and mining was already hard, so Ethereum originally implemented auctioning the transaction fees when the mining is not fast enough, this brought chaos because the transaction fees sky-rocketed because the miners will choose the transactions what offer more fees first.   Ridiculous nonsense is happening like having to pay $30 transaction fees when you buy something that costs $5, making Ethereum not viable as a day to day currency.   Ethereum was forked to version 2.0 to move to Proof of Stake and later in the future it should join the 1.0 version but things are not happening as fast as it should be.

This validates my point: IF, and big IF, we do move to crypto currency, why are we wasting energy with bad solutions?

 

28 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Yes, cryptos have problems, but your comments about them are very cringy because you clearly have no idea about what you are talking about.  You just repeat the FUD again and again and again.   Like the EV haters do, which is ironic.

No, it's not FUD. It's reality. You are spending huge amount of resources in the very slim hope that you picked the right crypto, plus government does not ban it all or bring it under government control. No current crypto is ready for everyday usage. This means you are spending energy on useless things!

If this were a corporate-run project, it would have been shut down years ago because it utterly fails the risk-benefit analysis!

 

28 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I hope you appreciate I took the time to explain you this, I over simplified everything of course.  

Thanks!

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Sure, and Japanese and Korean conglomerates have different business areas. That's not the point. Those are traditional services. We are talking about innovative services around a car, like entertainment, robotaxi, FSD. Or the same services with higher margins.

 

 

OK... So MM has me on ignore...   so, from what I understand he wont read my comment, therefore he wont be offended!!  

 

Mike...   you are a clown!   

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

First bad argument: you are spending energy upfront in the very low (or zero) chance it replaces banking. What if in 2 years everybody decides Bitcoin is not the solution and move to another crypto? Can you imagine the waste?

 

BTC already did his job, it bootstrapped the crypto world.  But I doubt it will collapse, and more problematic, it is difficult to change it, that's the real problem.   If everyone abandon it and go to something else, that would be probably something good.   When people criticise Tesla's price you keep talking about TOC.  Well you could do the same here, yes, the electric costs of launching BTC were high but once everything moves to Proof Of Stake the mining and waste of energy will disappear.   Just think in the long term. 

 

You are an engineer, you should know that projects sometimes do not start in their optimal status and it might be a long run to bring them there.  

 

 

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Second bad argument is that you think banks only do transactions and hold value.

 

Maybe I express myself wrongly.   Cryptos are not meant to completely replace banks.   They are meant to bring banking to everyone.  Banks will still be there and probably banks are going to openly support cryptos, like some are starting to do, you get a VISA card, you pay everything with your Visa in Fiat and at the end of the month you pay your Visa bill with crypto.

 

Quote

 

This validates my point: IF, and big IF, we do move to crypto currency, why are we wasting energy with bad solutions?

 

No, it's not FUD. It's reality. You are spending huge amount of resources in the very slim hope that you picked the right crypto, plus government does not ban it all or bring it under government control. No current crypto is ready for everyday usage. This means you are spending energy on useless things!

If this were a corporate-run project, it would have been shut down years ago because it utterly fails the risk-benefit analysis!

 

I think you are completely unaware of the current situation.   Those things you call IFs already happened.   And I already tried to explain you, Proof of Work was not optimal but it was needed because people wouldn't trust other consensus algorithms at the time.   Most modern cryptos do not use Proof of Work anymore (no mining, no waste of electricity).

 

Then you say there are risks of choosing the "wrong one".  If you are that scared you could use any of the ones attached to fiat, for example there are plenty of cryptos attached to the US Dollar.    So you have no risks with volatility.

 

I think the main problem is you think Cryptos are just for speculation (and to pay for illegal things).   But there are plenty of people using it already for normal day to day things.  Big companies already support Cryptos, like Paypal, they accept cryptos in the US and became a crypto trading site, they will expand globally probably this year.  I guess Amazon will join soon.

 

And banning cryptos?  Maybe in China.

 

 

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Thanks!

 

No problem, but I understand I am wasting my time.   It would be easier to convince @SpiderPig to buy a brand new Tesla (not that I myself would buy one) than making you understand Cryptos and how they are the future.

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57 minutes ago, Krieg said:

No problem, but I understand I am wasting my time.   It would be easier to convince @SpiderPig to buy a brand new Tesla (not that I myself would buy one) than making you understand Cryptos and how they are the future.

He thinks they're too expensive, but I just read something interesting for him and others:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/elektroauto/dacia-spring-electric-2021/

 

The new Dacia EV goes down to 10.900€ with Umweltbonus!

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"Tesla delivered 184,800 vehicles in Q1, blowing past estimates"

 

Quote

Tesla said Friday that first-quarter deliveries, its proxy for sales, totaled 184,800 vehicles in the first quarter, beating the FactSet consensus of 168,000. The electric vehicle company said it produced just over 180,000 vehicles in the period. Deliveries of its Model 3 sedans and Model Y compact SUVs came to 180,338. The FactSet consensus was for 122,600 Model 3s and about 10,000 Model Ys. "We are encouraged by the strong reception of the Model Y in China and are quickly progressing to full production capacity," the company said in a statement. "The new Model S and Model X have also been exceptionally well received, with the new equipment installed and tested in Q1 and we are in the early stages of ramping production." 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-delivered-184800-vehicles-in-q1-blowing-past-estimates-2021-04-02

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Q1 numbers are impressive, especially considering they produced ZERO S/X due to production line upgrade. This starts to look like 1 million cars in 2021. As Tesla has been doing for the past 2 years, under promise, over deliver. Seems Musk learned something.

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22 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Seems Musk learned something.

 

and taught a few somethings.

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"Tesla registrations skyrocket in Germany"

 

Quote

Tesla all-electric vehicles showed tremendous growth in terms of registrations in Germany, skyrocketing over 83% in Q1 2021 compared to the same period in 2020. Tesla continues to show exceptional expansion in Germany, despite its production facility within the country not building any vehicles yet.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-registrations-march-2021-germany-giga-berlin/

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A year after starting construction on its first European auto assembly plant on the outskirts of Berlin, Tesla is complaining that German regulations are too slow and inflexible, risking a delay in the opening of the facility.

“Obstacles in German law governing permits are slowing down the necessary industrial transformation and thus the transformation of transport and energy,” Tesla said in a 10-page letter, which was seen by The New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/business/tesla-german-gigafactory-delay.html?fbclid=IwAR3V0yUd3-izHqe-t49o8JgDTrqeUrjfleiLSemsyifpYXsVyqpj31FXkPU

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12 minutes ago, tor said:

 

A year after starting construction on its first European auto assembly plant on the outskirts of Berlin, Tesla is complaining that German regulations are too slow and inflexible, risking a delay in the opening of the facility.

“Obstacles in German law governing permits are slowing down the necessary industrial transformation and thus the transformation of transport and energy,” Tesla said in a 10-page letter, which was seen by The New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/business/tesla-german-gigafactory-delay.html?fbclid=IwAR3V0yUd3-izHqe-t49o8JgDTrqeUrjfleiLSemsyifpYXsVyqpj31FXkPU

 

 

They have been investing a lot in lobbyists to change working laws and be able to get away with the crap they are used to.   AFAIK their long term plan is to build some crappy dorms and keep there a few thousand of low paid workers living in crappy conditions and be able to jump to work at any time to do insane hours of crunching when needed.

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58 minutes ago, Krieg said:

AFAIK their long term plan is to build some crappy dorms and keep there a few thousand of low paid workers living in crappy conditions and be able to jump to work at any time to do insane hours of crunching when needed.

 

Source, please.

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