Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

1,959 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

This "news" has been repeated for weeks. It's a simple memory chip that needs replacement and Tesla does not need to recall all cars, they can change the chip during normal service appointments.

You mean Tesla says they do not have to recall them.

The NHTSA says they must.

Also did you miss the bit where Tesla has been charging customers to replace the faulty chip.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keleth said:

You mean Tesla says they do not have to recall them.

The NHTSA says they must.

Also did you miss the bit where Tesla has been charging customers to replace the faulty chip.

Tesla knows exactly when the chip is about to fail, so they can call each car to service as required. There is a percentage of the cars that will never be called at all.

What pisses me off is that people make such a big thing of something so small. All brands have recalls almost every year, and a lot of times for serious safety issues.

Why is Tesla on the news? Why is the news repeated multiple times? It's all about competitors, big oil and short sellers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, wien4ever said:

Yes, that was discussed on the video I posted. But the article is misleading. The 50 parts that don't match was explained as an example on why large casting is the future of automaking. Please watch the video, tabloid media picking quotes out of context is not good.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know a guy who suffered from the chip failure problem, and he ended up fixing it himself because Tesla Service wanted an obscene amount of money to replace the whole computer.  To fix it, he bought a salvaged sub board (the small-ish board with the crappy chip) from a guy in the Netherlands, and that board had to be set up with the encryption keys/certificate(s) from the original computer, which was a pain in the ass. 

 

In the end it he got back up and running, but it still cost several hundred Euros and far more time that one would want to spend on car repairs.  All this because a) Tesla went cheap on eMMC chips and 2) had the car's loglevel set to "LOG. FUCKING. EVERYTHING."

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CincyInDE said:

I know a guy who suffered from the chip failure problem, and he ended up fixing it himself because Tesla Service wanted an obscene amount of money to replace the whole computer.  To fix it, he bought a salvaged sub board (the small-ish board with the crappy chip) from a guy in the Netherlands, and that board had to be set up with the encryption keys/certificate(s) from the original computer, which was a pain in the ass. 

 

In the end it he got back up and running, but it still cost several hundred Euros and far more time that one would want to spend on car repairs.  All this because a) Tesla went cheap on eMMC chips and 2) had the car's loglevel set to "LOG. FUCKING. EVERYTHING."

 

 

 

and when he brings the car in for regular maintenance or when he tries to sell the car, the unauthorized chip will be detected and the "obscene amount of money" will rise up again.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, catjones said:

 

and when he brings the car in for regular maintenance or when he tries to sell the car, the unauthorized chip will be detected and the "obscene amount of money" will rise up again.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  He's getting software updates.  It's got all the legit codes he needs, for now at least. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Tesla knows exactly when the chip is about to fail, so they can call each car to service as required. There is a percentage of the cars that will never be called at all.

What pisses me off is that people make such a big thing of something so small. All brands have recalls almost every year, and a lot of times for serious safety issues.

Why is Tesla on the news? Why is the news repeated multiple times? It's all about competitors, big oil and short sellers.

Just for one minute get off of Teslas jockstrap ffs.

You also skipped the bit where Tesla have been charging owners to replace the chip whereas it should be up to them to replace a faulty part.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Keleth said:

Just for one minute get off of Teslas jockstrap ffs.

You also skipped the bit where Tesla have been charging owners to replace the chip whereas it should be up to them to replace a faulty part.

I had my own company for 12 years. I made devices to last long, but free support ended when warranty ended. We had issues with maybe 10% of the devices after warranty. Usually some capacitor that got damaged. Electronics are not forever. What I can say in this case is that the replacement price (which I don't know how much it is) might be high. But paying out of warranty for component replacement is what every single company expects.

If Tesla was not replacing them as part of warranty, then there is a serious issue.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

If Tesla was not replacing them as part of warranty, then there is a serious issue.

 

I think the bigger issue for Tesla in the long term is that Elon still seems to think he can do whatever he wants - which has been true to a large extent in the past. He reopened his Fremont plant in violation of the lockdown measures that were in place at the time and AFAIK never faced consequences for it. The NHTSA "asked" him to recall the cars and he told them to pound sand, so he has now been ordered to.

 

Brand loyalty is a crucial factor in the car industry. If Tesla is perceived as cutting corners on quality and fucking its customers over, it could be very detrimental to the company's future, especially since the competition is catching up on Tesla's USPs.

 

The comparison to SpaceX is apt: Elon says the natural tendency of experimental rockets is to explode, so when one does, he claps and laughs at the fireworks show, tells people he'll get better next time, and the people buy it. Cars that have a reputation of being unsafe are an entirely different matter. It took Ford over a decade to recover from the Pinto disaster.

 

I'm not saying this is going to happen, I'm just saying Tesla needs to be less cavalier in its approach to quality and sourcing.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

 Usually some capacitor that got damaged. Electronics are not forever. What I can say in this case is that the replacement price (which I don't know how much it is) might be high. But paying out of warranty for component replacement is what every single company expects.

If Tesla was not replacing them as part of warranty, then there is a serious issue.

 

Now thats not true....   When an elecronic device is developed, a few test samples are made and distributed for testing and approval... once approved, then the manufacturer looks for lesser quallity components that will last a "reasonable" time above and beyond Gaurantee ...

 

When a client called me with a certain problem, I could tell them the make and model of their Satellite box without having ever seen it!!   I could also tell then how long repair takes and how much!!   

After the repair ( I used better quallity components, ) The faults never returned!   

 

So, cut corners on component quallity and you will get problems...  !!   END OF! 

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

 

I think the bigger issue for Tesla in the long term is that Elon still seems to think he can do whatever he wants - which has been true to a large extent in the past. He reopened his Fremont plant in violation of the lockdown measures that were in place at the time and AFAIK never faced consequences for it. The NHTSA "asked" him to recall the cars and he told them to pound sand, so he has now been ordered to.

 

Brand loyalty is a crucial factor in the car industry. If Tesla is perceived as cutting corners on quality and fucking its customers over, it could be very detrimental to the company's future, especially since the competition is catching up on Tesla's USPs.

Tesla had the same EV market share in 2019 and 2020. Competition is not there yet.

 

15 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

The comparison to SpaceX is apt: Elon says the natural tendency of experimental rockets is to explode, so when one does, he claps and laughs at the fireworks show, tells people he'll get better next time, and the people buy it.

51% rule. This was actually how the Apollo program was done. Otherwise it would never have met the deadlines. The alternative is a very long and costly development process. This works much better and gives good advertisement.

 

15 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Cars that have a reputation of being unsafe are an entirely different matter. It took Ford over a decade to recover from the Pinto disaster.

 

I'm not saying this is going to happen, I'm just saying Tesla needs to be less cavalier in its approach to quality and sourcing.

I always say that the innovation Tesla brought was not electric cars nor batteries. It was process. It is using iterative development processes from the SW industry.

This means stuff is developed in 4x less time, but first batches have more "bugs". It's the same with SW development.

It will never please everyone, but it works. My car came flawless, as many have. A lot of unhappy people also refused delivery and got their issues fixed.

We also have to remember that until Berlin is up, this is an American car manufacturer. I wouldn't buy an american car before Tesla came. Before, only German.

Most of the complains are with the paint quality, which is true, but comes from the fact that laws in California force a water based paint. Berlin is said to have a completely different paintshop. Let's see.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

This means stuff is developed in 4x less time, but first batches have more "bugs". It's the same with SW development.

 

Remember what GM said after Bill Gates compared the computer industry to the car industry?

 

Quote

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason.  You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

 

If Teslas start crashing, whether it's due to physical defects or software bugs, people are going to notice.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Most of the complains are with the paint quality, which is true, but comes from the fact that laws in California force a water based paint. Berlin is said to have a completely different paintshop

Did you even read the article.

The paint was a common problem but as Musk himself explained...

"Musk explained that when Tesla was ramping up production, the paint 'was not necessarily drying enough' due to his team rushing cars through the process."

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Did you even read the article.

The paint was a common problem but as Musk himself explained...

"Musk explained that when Tesla was ramping up production, the paint 'was not necessarily drying enough' due to his team rushing cars through the process."

 

 

I actually listened to the full 48 minutes of talk.

No, he was talking about Model 3 2021 ramp up. My complain, which is still valid for 2021 models from USA, is that water based paint is crap. You can't take it to a normal car wash, for example.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

 

Remember what GM said after Bill Gates compared the computer industry to the car industry?

I guess that's an explanation good enough for people without any knowledge on how Tesla cars work.

There are 2 computers. One can crash as he likes. The other one is very low level, with fast auto restart and 100% redundancy, so even if it crashes, you don't notice.

 

4 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

If Teslas start crashing, whether it's due to physical defects or software bugs, people are going to notice.

IF you ever drove a Tesla long enough, you would know it's not a problem. The MCU is not driving the car. Even autopilot continues to work if you reset the computer while driving.

I already tested this a couple of times. I set autopilot on, then manually reset the MCU. The car continued to drive normally. Everything works, except sound and back camera.

Why? Because the MCU is not in control of the car. The low level computer is.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now