Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

2,313 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, murphaph said:

Looks weird but it's the first electric car that can pull a proper trailer AFAIK. The Zoe can pull about 750kg iirc and most are not certified by the manufacturer to tow anything. I've a 1300kg trailer. I'd be up for the switchover to an EV but only when I can buy one that pulls that trailer.

Huh, no...

Tesla Model X can easily tow 2500kg. The S and 3 can do 1000kg.

The limitation is usually on the chassis and brakes, not on the engine. An EV is much better to tow than an ICE car, due to optimal torque at low revs.

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Just saw a few mods of the Cybertruck on Reddit. With some minor changes and some paint, it does not look so bad.

Then you can focus on what is important:

- <$40k entry price

- high tow capability

- great range

- 110/220V AC plug

- built in air compressor

- low running costs

- 6 seater (there will be a version with more cargo space and 2 seater)

- potentially can work partially underwater (like the Model X)

 

Contrary to expectations, they are not targeting the asshole with small penis/napoleon complex, they are going for the guy that really needs such a truck for daily business. They might also have an eye for military supply. Minor modifications and you have an amphibious, low thermal signature, silent truck, which can be refueled by a powerline. Although not many units can be sold to the military, the margins are far greater.

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13 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

My point is that despite hearing some bad news reports (AKA Tesla clickbait), why do those people refuse to unionize or strike?

Oh really ?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-tesla-labor-violation-nlrb

So they refuse to unionise ?

Are you absolutely sure about that ?

14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Tesla workers have stock options.

Stock options yes,actual stock nope unless they take up the option.

 

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4 hours ago, catjones said:

 

Exploit..." make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource) "

 

It's not a "country" thing.  Your posting exploits TT.

Hmm makes me wonder if you deliberately didn`t read ALL the definitions it gives in the dictionary.

"make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand. "

 

You obviously wouldn`t describe child labour in China for example then as children being exploited ?

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56 minutes ago, Keleth said:

And yet... no union! Know why? Because stock options are better, if you believe in the company, like any tech company employee will know. Even when they eventually get a union (UAW will not let that pass), the vast majority will not unionize.

 

56 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Stock options yes,actual stock nope unless they take up the option.

It ties the success of the company to the employees performance. My wife has a similar option (not public traded) here in Germany (and we took it). We have around 15% average income per year. Unfortunately my company does not have that.

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Huh, no...

Tesla Model X can easily tow 2500kg. The S and 3 can do 1000kg.

The limitation is usually on the chassis and brakes, not on the engine. An EV is much better to tow than an ICE car, due to optimal torque at low revs.

I stand corrected but I can't justify the cost of a model X. The S and 3 as you say only to 1000kg which is not enough for my needs personally. At least Tesla certifies its vehicles to tow anything. Many EV manufacturers do not. As you say, it's not a limitation of the motive power. It's a choice the manufacturers are making to not allow their EV models to tow.

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On 11/21/2019, 8:32:56, catjones said:

You might be spending too much time in DL and are accustomed to DL building times but are unaware that in many other countries, the stated time frames are common.  

 

On 11/21/2019, 12:27:09, Keleth said:

A lot of which comes from exploiting his workers which hopefully Germany won`t allow.

 

I know it's common to blame some big, bad capitalist...that's hackneyed and not applicable.  The fact is, what is being exploited are modern building techniques and technologies.  In Germany, what's also being exploited are frivolous lawsuits being brought against contractors (and coddled by the courts) for the sheer Euro gain which slow/stop construction.

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16 hours ago, fraufruit said:

I don't know of any good old boys who come from where I grew up who would be caught dead in that thing.

No kidding

 

Even barring an image disconnect I'm not convinced of the basic utility. What the heck are you supposed to use this for? 

 

This just does not strike me as a serious work truck. It might appeal to a few city folk who imagine they want to go off-roading on the weekend, but in the end won't ever do it as their truck would get dirty. 

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42 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

No kidding

 

Even barring an image disconnect I'm not convinced of the basic utility. What the heck are you supposed to use this for? 

 

This just does not strike me as a serious work truck. It might appeal to a few city folk who imagine they want to go off-roading on the weekend, but in the end won't ever do it as their truck would get dirty. 

 

Tesla still has to convince the plaid'n'chaw set that it's worth it. It is very much ON-grid, which is a limiting factor for the backwoods types I know in rural Canada, who don't like to be overly reliant on big tech or, really, anything/one, if they don't have to be. If the only licensed dealer is 500km away at some city slicker 'fine car' dealership, and you can't source parts yourself, then forget it.

 

15 hours ago, catjones said:

To all the other non-nay-sayers:  It's easy to criticize the change agents of the world with caretaker principles.  If the Musks of the world listened to you, there would be no progress.  When you develop something from scratch that's never been done before, using status quo bench marks is useless, non-productive and misguided.  They subtract.  They do not add.

 

I am glad that the EV market is growing, and I genuinely hope that Tesla becomes profitable, more for the knock-on effects it will have. But Musk himself has his head so far up his ass he's some kind of geometric impossibility of narcissism. I've listened to several podcasts with him, and an some matters of course he's knowledgeable, but on others he really doesn't know what he's on about. I wonder if he really believes what he's saying, or he's just feeding off the wide-eyed speculation of his interviewers, so feeding them fantastic tales he knows they'll gobble up.

I could see him eventually becoming a liability to Tesla. Maybe still a decade away, who knows. He's another techbro entrepreneur. Good for him. But he is not a messiah, he is not all-knowing or wise, he is not infallible or beyond reproach. 

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11 hours ago, murphaph said:

I stand corrected but I can't justify the cost of a model X. The S and 3 as you say only to 1000kg which is not enough for my needs personally. At least Tesla certifies its vehicles to tow anything. Many EV manufacturers do not. As you say, it's not a limitation of the motive power. It's a choice the manufacturers are making to not allow their EV models to tow.

Upcoming Model Y should have higher towing capability, but concrete numbers have not been published yet. We should know them in 4 months, when they start selling them.

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12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

And yet... no union! Know why? Because stock options are better, if you believe in the company, like any tech company employee will know. Even when they eventually get a union (UAW will not let that pass), the vast majority will not unionize.

 

It ties the success of the company to the employees performance. My wife has a similar option (not public traded) here in Germany (and we took it). We have around 15% average income per year. Unfortunately my company does not have that.

On 22/11/2019, 08:44:21, MikeMelga said:

Tesla workers have stock options. They are "mini-owners". I know your socialist view has some trouble understanding this, but business owners do have to work harder when times are dire. They worked harder, now the stock is worth more.

 

My point is that despite hearing some bad news reports (AKA Tesla clickbait), why do those people refuse to unionize or strike?

You don't need a union to go on strike, yet these people don't use their right. Perhaps because the vast majority does not feel they need to.

 

In my personal experience, yes. But let's not go again into that.

 

Some people prefer to have a life and a family, than get the vague promise that in X years your stock options will be worth something.

 

The success of a company is tied to so much more than its employees performance., jesus it's so stupid to think so simplistic. Does the company have a good product and is the market in a good state and ready for it? Is the CEO a dickhead or not?

The employees can spin like hamsters (something that you probably like to see), but the company might still end up being bankrupt.

 

I'm sure that WeWork employees (another 'hot startup' run by a moron) are very happy to have worthless stock options at the moment. Why don't you go tell them that they have it so good?

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4 hours ago, UpToWick said:

Some people prefer to have a life and a family, than get the vague promise that in X years your stock options will be worth something.

 

I'm not sure what the link is between these two?  I worked for a few startups and received both...a life and stock options.  

 

4 hours ago, UpToWick said:

the company might still end up being bankrupt.

 

 

Do you mean a startup like Deutsche Bank?  There the employees get no options and if the place goes belly up it's no different than if they did.

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8 hours ago, lisa13 said:

What the heck are you supposed to use this for? 

 

This article gives a fuller explanation. 

 

The comments about the good-ol-boys not buying it are missing the larger segment of the pickup market.  "  they are the most common vehicles in operation (USA) at 20% share today  ".  I'll bet the lion's share never go off-road or see a a bale of hay.  The Tesla won't be driven by the ranch-hand, but by the rancher.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cybertruck-pickup-trucks-coolest-features-2019-11#9-it-also-comes-with-a-magic-tonneau-cover-tough-enough-to-withstand-the-weight-of-a-person-standing-on-it-according-to-the-automaker-11

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11 hours ago, UpToWick said:

 

Some people prefer to have a life and a family, than get the vague promise that in X years your stock options will be worth something.

Free market, choose your employer. Tesla has over half a million applicants per year. All of them knows where they are getting themselves into. SpaceX has 1.5 million! Those people WANT to be there, even with lower pays (but potential earnings from stock options). That is why a union in Tesla will not have much success.

 

Quote

The success of a company is tied to so much more than its employees performance., jesus it's so stupid to think so simplistic. Does the company have a good product and is the market in a good state and ready for it? Is the CEO a dickhead or not?

The employees can spin like hamsters (something that you probably like to see), but the company might still end up being bankrupt.

Of course it is more than employee performance! Please bear in mind that stock options are negotiable! Meaning that you might forego them during contract negotiation! In the end, you take the chance or not. But Tesla is an example on how dedication from employees saved the company last year and brought it back to profitability. In that sense, this is a great way for a company to succeed.

 

Quote

 

I'm sure that WeWork employees (another 'hot startup' run by a moron) are very happy to have worthless stock options at the moment. Why don't you go tell them that they have it so good?

Because WeWork is the pinnacle of the current trend: startups without a profitable business model, which just want to grow as fast as possible until an IPO!! Those company's objective is not to survive nor be profitable; their objective is to have an IPO, make investors rich and then fade away. 

With WeWork, their business model was so bad that they did not even survive until the IPO!

Uber is another example. I think Uber will disappear in the next 5 years. Either that or they will have to accept a severe market share reduction.

 

In the end, as an employee, you need to measure the risk of your bet, as with any investment. 

 

There are other benefits of stock options for the company. Apple, for example, only allows you to trigger the stock option after 4 years, meaning that they maintain people that otherwise would be jumping out every 2 years, taking away internal knowledge and leaving many unfinished projects.

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38 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Free market, choose your employer.

 

 

You self richeous Prick.. 

 

Slowly...  I am starting to put you in the same bed as J².... 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

You self richeous Prick.. 

 

Slowly...  I am starting to put you in the same bed as J²... 

So you prefer the state to choose one for you? Or you think they have no other options? California has an unemployment of 4%, meaning there is plenty of choice.

 

This is not even a Tesla defense. I purely despise unions because they simply don't work where I come from.

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"Tesla's polarizing Cybertruck was preordered 146,000 times within 48 hours"

 

Quote

 USA TODAY
Published 11:33 AM EST Nov 24, 2019
Just days after hosting a bumpy reveal event, Tesla secured 146,000 preorders of its new electric pickup truck, CEO Elon Musk tweeted Saturday. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Janx Spirit said:

"Tesla's polarizing Cybertruck was preordered 146,000 times within 48 hours"

 

 

Unsure how to read this. The downpayment was only $100, so I would wait to see if it flies. My guess is that for now they won't bother much, later in 2020 they will make minor cosmetic changes.

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