Berlin to get a Tesla Gigafactory

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Of course we all have 220 when we are plugged in on our pier in the marina. That is when we can run our AC. Otherwise, as I said, we all have 12V. At least in sailboats, batteries are normally under the seating in the salon or under a bed in the back cabin. Not all the way in the back.

 

Some of our friends also have generators for charging, running AC, etc. We have solar panels. The only thing we can't do is make hot water when out on anchor unless we run our engine for 30 min. or so. 

 

What you call "premium area" also has a lot of storage and possibilities under the sofas and floors for other installations. 

 

An 85 ft. Oyster is not a reality for us. Don't they cost a million or so?

 

You are just wrong saying that 12 - 18 meter boats and maybe longer have 24V. Plain and simple. We have friends with very big ships on our marina.

 

We do have a 220 converter that we use to run our coffee machine in the morning when out on anchor. As I said, we have solar panels for charging the batteries.

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39 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

An 85 ft. Oyster is not a reality for us. Don't they cost a million or so?

Yes, the one I visited costs 8M€. My boat costed (2nd hand) 12.000€. :)

 

 

39 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

You are just wrong saying that 12 - 18 meter boats and maybe longer have 24V. Plain and simple. We have friends with very big ships on our marina.

I'm not saying they have to. I'm saying they should have it, but of course it depends for what and how you use the boat.

Not only that, newer boats come with electric winches, which put a lot of stress on a 12V system. A 40 winch, which is the minimum for a 12m boat, can draw up to 200A on a 12V line. It's doable, but depends on the cable length. An 18 meter boat probably needs over 300A on a 12A line.

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Yes, one can choose 12 or 24V winches. Pretty sure our friends all have 12V. With electric winches comes more batteries to handle them. It does make sense that larger boats would need more power on account of the sail size. We have 79 meters of sail area and don't need electric winches although they would be nice.

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That's just Muskian propaganda. They may be able to throw up a factory in a year in China, where no one cares about labor rights, industrial safety, or the environment, but you just know they're going to find a family of rare frogs or endangered birds when they start clear-cutting the forest on the designated factory site.

 

Just a reminder: over 100 workers were killed during the construction of the new Beijing airport. Imagine that in Germany.

 

I predict the first cars won't roll off the assembly lines until at least 2023.

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7 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

They may be able to throw up a factory in a year in China, where no one cares about labor rights, industrial safety, or the environment,

 

They do, at least, have a successful track record which you choose to dismiss.  You might be spending too much time in DL and are accustomed to DL building times but are unaware that in many other countries, the stated time frames are common.  

 

As the article states, it is the Germans who are reducing permit times, not Tesla.

 

If your prediction comes true because of German bureaucratic failings, it will send a signal to other investors to stay away just as BER has done.  

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You mean the proven track record of missing production targets every single quarter until the most recent one and making huge losses every single quarter until the most recent one? Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of Musk's claims.

 

If he doesn't keep his promise, it won't be just due to German regulations. There is a nationwide shortage of construction capacity and a local shortage of skilled labor. And he won't be able to burn his employees out like he does in Fremont, either, thanks to co-determination, union rules, and last but not least, the Bundesarbeitszeitgesetz. If he plans to attract thousands of workers from abroad, or even from other German states, they'll all have to find housing on a market that's already stretched to the breaking point.

 

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, and I think his decision in favor of Berlin/Brandenburg is good for the region and good for Germany in the long term, but no projects of this magnitude happen quickly in Germany - whether they're public or private. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't see him going from greenfield to active production in less than a year.

 

You can accuse me of spending too much time in Germany, but it's been my home for nearly 30 years now and I like to think I have a fair idea of how things work here. From smoking a blunt on live TV to repeatedly calling a rescue worker "pedoguy", I don't always get that impression from Musk. Sure, he's a billionaire and I'm not, but only because he's a good salesman. AFAIK all his enterprises are burning money and owe their continuing existence solely to the whims of the stakeholders.

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3 hours ago, catjones said:

You might be spending too much time in DL and are accustomed to DL building times but are unaware that in many other countries, the stated time frames are common.  

A lot of which comes from exploiting his workers which hopefully Germany won`t allow.

14 hours ago, catjones said:

Teslas could be rolling off the assembly line sooner than planes begin taking off from Berlin’s much-delayed new airport.

That would not shock me in the slightest but down to the sheer clusterfuck that is the airport rather than anything special on Teslas behalf.

On 11/18/2019, 9:23:51, SpiderPig said:

https://tirol.orf.at/stories/3021270/?fbclid=IwAR0YvQtMYhYs2-94LXV0Mqewo1l-lSlyr_TxzFSt8y_eAUwG-vuz5wrSXh0

 

please explain...   I thought Lithium batteries were recycleable... 

This is the thing with Tesla.

There are problems which are often blown out of proportion by the many anti Tesla people out there and on the other side you have the Tesla fan boys who think everything is wonderful and won`t hear a word against them no matter the evidence to the contrary.

3 hours ago, catjones said:

If your prediction comes true because of German bureaucratic failings

We all complain about German bureaucracy ( me most definitely) however for some reason it functions extremely well.

 

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57 minutes ago, Keleth said:

A lot of which comes from exploiting his workers which hopefully Germany won`t allow.

Not again this bullshit...

 

57 minutes ago, Keleth said:

We all complain about German bureaucracy ( me most definitely) however for some reason it functions extremely well.

There I agree, In my case I don't even complain because I know what a shitty bureaucracy is (Portugal).

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12 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

That's just Muskian propaganda. They may be able to throw up a factory in a year in China, where no one cares about labor rights, industrial safety, or the environment, but you just know they're going to find a family of rare frogs or endangered birds when they start clear-cutting the forest on the designated factory site.

 

Just a reminder: over 100 workers were killed during the construction of the new Beijing airport. Imagine that in Germany.

 

I predict the first cars won't roll off the assembly lines until at least 2023.

 

If the factory gets built at all, seeing how Musk often over-promises and under-delivers (boring machine, funding secured, solar tiles, insurance etc.)

 

Tesla put an assembly line in a tent in California this year to ramp up production, I can't imagine them being allowed to do that in Germany. So their costs will be higher in Germany than in the US.

 

Also VW have started ramping up production of their electric cars and they will probably be able to make a profit from their cars, which Tesla haven't managed to do yet. Also VW, BMW all have dealership networks and certified service, finance etc. they will be able to leverage.

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but this is a battery plant.... 

 

Surely if they were to be doing R+D there too.. maybe South of France.. Spain.. Portugal or any southern europeand land would be the place to build... 

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The plant doesn't have to be finished to see production start. I worked for IBM many years ago in a new plant where production started before construction was complete and the gigafactory concept is built around this idea.

 

They will probably count final assembly of largely assembled cars as "production".

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This is supposed to be a battery plant, a drivetrain plant and a car plant in one location. That's what has been announced anyway. What ends up happening...

 

The R&D centre is allegedly going to Berlin proper.

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2 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

but this is a battery plant... 

 

Surely if they were to be doing R+D there too.. maybe South of France.. Spain.. Portugal or any southern europeand land would be the place to build... 

Problem is that countries like Portugal don't have enough engineers and specialized workers, nor specialized suppliers nearby.

Also doesn't help that our labor laws, although similar to Germany, are completely subverted by the communist controller unions.

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Do I really need to link the many many articles on this from reliable resources.

Oh well save me linking them individually   http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=tesla+worker+exploitation

You are again digging 1 year old news when they had a huge amount of pressure to ramp up production.

 

If it is that bad, where are the strikes? Meanwhile at GM...

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/10/25/20930350/gm-workers-vote-end-strike

 

And please let's not get into union's discussion again, we've been there before.

1 hour ago, Keleth said:

He has improved but for you to claim him exploiting his workers is bullshit just shows your Tesla bias.

They have Tesla stock options and healthcare coverage. They have, together with SpaceX, 1.500.000 candidates per year. Must be really bad to work there, huh?

 

 

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