Berlin to get a Tesla Gigafactory

376 posts in this topic

I wouldn't focus too much on any particular rare earth elements. There are other research projects into batteries that show promise, even biological energy storage. 

 

We will probably not need lithium or cobalt for the batteries of the future.

 

People thought you'd need a horse for your carriage a little over a century ago. It's just a pity oil was so abundant. We'd have moved on from it decades ago already if it hadn't been.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

I wonder if MrMelga knows how much oil derived products go to build his car?

 

The oils and grease etc that are in the braking system,, CV vounts, bearings and Polyuretanes etc etc... 

No motor oil, much less lubricant needed, as there are much less moving parts. Much less plastic parts. Really, an EV has 10% of the number of parts of a normal diesel car. Find another argument, that one is debunked.

 

9 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

 

As for the arguement about lead acid Car Batteries is a joke... If my battery fails... I can get a replacement within 35 minutes ( Usually) and my day continues... You cant do that with an EV... 

A Tesla Model 3 battery is expected to last on average 800.000km. Your lead acid battery probably dies every 4 or 5 years.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

No motor oil, much less lubricant needed, as there are much less moving parts. Much less plastic parts. Really, an EV has 10% of the number of parts of a normal diesel car. Find another argument, that one is debunked.

 

A Tesla Model 3 battery is expected to last on average 800.000km. Your lead acid battery probably dies every 4 or 5 years.

I never said Motor oil!     You need to clean your rose specs....

 

Secondly, by the time I change to an EV, it will probably have 700K Km on it... the batery will then fail and again I ask.. "How long will it take to get a replacement?  

But as Murph has said, Lithium batteries may well not be the future.. so maybe your lovely Tesla will be a lemon or you will need to fit after market battery to it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

 

As I have always said... its not about the production of electricity.. they key factor is finding a clean and efficient way of storing it!... 

Exactly!

10 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

 

The second major problem is once the solar collectors and storage become un-economical, where and how will they be recycled ?

Why would they? It's like wind power. Once you have it installed, there is no reason to destroy it, at least not in the first 20 years, before major maintenance is required.

10 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

 

The thrid major headache is the "power source" is a moving target, so to make the solar collectors efficient, they also need to be steerable.. 

Not necessarily. A lot of solar farms don't steer it. Panels are getting so cheap that unless if you have limited area to install them, steering is no longer economically viable.

10 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

 

If Musk wants to pull this off with his factory.. maybe he should be supplying all of his suppliers with E-Trucks to bring in the parts. 

A Gigafactory is a battery factory. Some Gigafactories can also produce cars. Musk mentioned a month ago that he is willing to license the powertrain and batteries to other manufacturers. My guess is that he will also include van manufacturers. There was a tweet a few months ago where he directly said he would love to have a Mercedes van with their powertrain. Regarding trucks, they will start producing their own trucks next years.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

So by moving "forward"... many many smaller companies that rely on providing services and parts will be forced to close...  

Definately a step forward!!   NOT 

Like the phone operators of <1950?

Jeezz, you are really a Laggard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

Quote

Laggards: They are the last to adopt an innovation. Unlike some of the previous categories, individuals in this category show little to no opinion leadership. These individuals typically have an aversion to change-agents. Laggards typically tend to be focused on "traditions", lowest social status, lowest financial liquidity, oldest among adopters, and in contact with only family and close friends.

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Why would they? It's like wind power. Once you have it installed, there is no reason to destroy it, at least not in the first 20 years, before major maintenance is required.

 

 

Inverters fail.. regularly... Batteries become weaker and weaker as does the panels abillity to produce electricity at the same rate as when it was new.... 

 

I have a small 1KW set-up ( hobby set up) and when it was firts installed, I would regularly get 850w at the inverter... I am now lucky to see 600W...   and absolutely nothing has changed in its configuration...

 

Why would that be?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

I never said Motor oil!     You need to clean your rose specs...

 

Secondly, by the time I change to an EV, it will probably have 700K Km on it... the batery will then fail and again I ask.. "How long will it take to get a replacement?  

You are really unlucky to pick an argument with me regarding EVs... as a Tesla investor I do research a lot. Depending on the specific model, replacing a battery can be done as fast as 90 seconds, for a Model S. This was because at some point they were contemplating battery swap idea.

If you are talking about time for the battery to reach the service station, that of course can take days or weeks. The question is: 800.000km is decades of car usage. Waiting a few days or weeks for a replacement is really an issue? Your car is most likely dead by then and your battery ended up on someone's wall, charging from solar panels.

 

5 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

 



But as Murph has said, Lithium batteries may well not be the future.. so maybe your lovely Tesla will be a lemon or you will need to fit after market battery to it!

Actually, that is a great argument for EVs. The powertrain is independent of the energy source. Meaning that I could swap my battery for a completely different type of energy source, even as stupid as a RTG (radioactive thermoelectric generator) in some sort of Mad Max dystopian future!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think we need the petrol engine for decades to come. And Piggy is correct you need oil to lubricate. And plastics. 

 

But noone asks where does the energy originally come from.

 

did you know Greta's Tesla broke down?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

A Tesla Model 3 battery is expected to last on average 800.000km. Your lead acid battery probably dies every 4 or 5 years.

Just to prove there's an exception to every rule, we changed the battery on the car this week. It's the original put in over 13 years ago and whats more, it's on an Italian car.

 

Back to the original subject, it doesn't really matter what you think of EV verses ICE, the political will is there to ditch ICE for EV and maybe Tesla is trying to protect itself from political upheavel in economics by having an European factory to supply the European market that won't be so badly affected by trade wars and other shite that could happen.

 

Whether a particular manufacturer is better than another or whether a piece of technology is ahead of the game doesn't really matter, buying a car is often subjective - a purchase based on emotion rather than pure facts. We see that time and again with the different products that some people buy happily while others scoff.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Berlin is relatively close to existing car manufacturing areas in the western parts of the Czech Republic and Poland so  skilled auto workers are available from these areas too.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeremy... we've been talking about solar as an alternative to fossil fuels for the generation in this very thread! Perhaps you should read more than just the old conspiracy theory websites ;-)

 

Mike makes a super point. There's every possibility you will see current Tesla models running with newer generation batteries in 10 years with a solid used market for the batteries for home PV installations.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Actually, that is a great argument for EVs. The powertrain is independent of the energy source. Meaning that I could swap my battery for a completely different type of energy source, even as stupid as a RTG (radioactive thermoelectric generator) in some sort of Mad Max dystopian future!

 

Hook this bad boy up.

 

fusion03.jpg.a9d4f4f3a48cb9755fbdbb026f8

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Jeremy... we've been talking about solar as an alternative to fossil fuels for the generation in this very thread! Perhaps you should read more than just the old conspiracy theory websites ;-)

 

Murph - I was one of the first post 911 people to read all about the Peak Oil era. I believed in Peak Oil and I still do. The quest for oil goes back to 1900 even. I think the US government had a huge problem in the 1990s. They had to know how much oil was left and discovered Saudi was running dry. They found there was 20 years more left in Iraq. They almost had to go there and steal that oil or it would have been the end of our world. It just bought them time to find other alternatives, like solar and wind. 

 

The problem is solar is failing to live up its promise, as is wind. And many of the solar projects of the last few years have been huge money laundering projects, such as in the Caribbean. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solar will live up to its potential in time. The cost of even the existing tech is continuing to fall. I can cover my roof in PV today and it will have completely paid for itself in 10 years. The panels have expected lifetimes of 40+ years, losing some efficiency over time. That's at least 30 years of free electricity and that's at current prices. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Solar will live up to its potential in time. The cost of even the existing tech is continuing to fall. I can cover my roof in PV today and it will have completely paid for itself in 10 years. The panels have expected lifetimes of 40+ years, losing some efficiency over time. That's at least 30 years of free electricity and that's at current prices. 

 

Have you done it?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if Jeffrey Epstein believed in extra terrestrial visitors, I guess we'll never know. :(

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in planning Jeremy. I have other electrical work to do due to garage build which I will combine with the PV install.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, hooperski said:

I wonder if Jeffrey Epstein believed in extra terrestrial visitors, I guess we'll never know. :(

 

Probably way over your head Hoops, but give this a go:

 

 

Nikolai Tesla invented alternating current which Edison stole. Most of Tesla's papers ended up in the hands of John Trump a gifted physicist at MIT.  Tesla's science contained research into free energy, including wireless energy transmission (Marconi grabbed that). This is the tech which got JFK killed, which contains knowledge of what the UFO project is. If you don't believe me, listen to DJ's research shows Fridays.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now