Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

1,558 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, BradinBayern said:

I think the US is seen as "risk taking" because of the large number of immigrants (like Elon Musk) who are willing to take risks, but the native population isn't much better than the Germans.    

There is easy access to credit for non-real state investments. There is social pressure to be successful. And there is no shame on failing.

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17 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

There is easy access to credit for non-real state investments. There is social pressure to be successful. And there is no shame on failing.

"Easy access" is relative.  For the coasts that might be true, but if you live in flyoverland there is no easy access.  There might be no shame in failure (depends again, the US is a big country.  Hard to generalize) but no social net either.  

 

However, I agree that Germany is bad for people interested in becoming entrepreneurs.  It is like that they are trying to punish people who want to go into business for themselves.  I just don't think that the US is so great either.  

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Being innovative is not enough nowadays. You need to take risks, as the market will not wait for a normal development cycle.

Concerning taking risks: The German approach of taking risks is heavily based on the "theory of second best". E.G. Volkswagen is certainly watching what Musk is doing, but calling that not innovative enough is very American (the "good old" pioneer spirit is heavily overestimated).

 

Maybe this picture conveys it...

second-mouse.jpg.73176d6ab717d9991e03b87

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

I work in the fastest changing business market in the world. Innovation cycles are shorter than 1 year.

 

That's YOU.  But then you go and make silly blanket statements telling us how the WHOLE market is all the same as the tiny bit you work on.  

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23 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

That's YOU.  But then you go and make silly blanket statements telling us how the WHOLE market is all the same as the tiny bit you work on.  

Well, most of the economy is actually changing faster and faster. Either you innovate or you die.

 

I will give you a down to earth example: barbers shops in Portugal changed completely in the past 5 years. There are still the old style barber shops, but they are being replaced with a younger generation, which brought in a more sophisticated presentation and array of services. Mostly hipster-related, but it does not matter. What matters is that a market which was stagnant for decades suddenly changed. And those young professionals took a risk, as barber is not a well paid profession in Portugal, and loyalty is strong. It paid off for many, as they can charge more than a normal barber.

 

Innovation and risk taking is not all about technology.

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4 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

barbers shops in Portugal changed completely in the past 5 years.

Have they become money laundering fronts for illicit activities? Because Berlin is just as innovative in that regard. Nail salons, too.

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14 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Well, most of the economy is actually changing faster and faster. Either you innovate or you die.

 

Yes, in some market segments.  But some are really slow and you can't rush anything due to different reasons, like the products being mega-expensive, or super sensitive (people can die), or the life cycle of the product is quite long (customers won't buy often), or because it is not possible to make the R&D faster, or because they depend on things that you can't physically rush, and so on.

 

 

14 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 

I will give you a down to earth example: barbers shops in Portugal changed completely in the past 5 years. There are still the old style barber shops, but they are being replaced with a younger generation, which brought in a more sophisticated presentation and array of services. Mostly hipster-related, but it does not matter. What matters is that a market which was stagnant for decades suddenly changed. And those young professionals took a risk, as barber is not a well paid profession in Portugal, and loyalty is strong. It paid off for many, as they can charge more than a normal barber.

 

Innovation and risk taking is not all about technology.

 

Berlin is literally full or hipster barber parlors.  So, can we conclude that Germany is as "innovative" as Portugal (which seems to be the best country of the planet).

 

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24 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Have they become money laundering fronts for illicit activities? Because Berlin is just as innovative in that regard. Nail salons, too.

Nah, hipsters just have better skills at getting money from their parents, so barbers can squeeze them :)

Money laundering in Portugal is mostly done through second hand car sales.

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11 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Berlin is literally full or hipster barber parlors.  So, can we conclude that Germany is as "innovative" as Portugal (which seems to be the best country of the planet).

As with many Portuguese expats, you need to live outside Portugal for a few years to really appreciate the country where you were born.

Regarding Berlin, I thought it was not really Germany, right? :)

 

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8 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

I just don't think that the US is so great either.  

9 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

think the US is seen as "risk taking" because of the large number of immigrants (like Elon Musk) who are willing to take risks, but the native population isn't much better than the Germans.    

 

You obviously have never worked in the US.  

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I just looked at their  official accounts....    I wouldnt say it was that respectable... but they are admitidly getting there...

 

I think the Berlin plans will put a massive dent in this for 2020... 

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1 minute ago, SpiderPig said:

I just looked at their  official accounts...    I wouldnt say it was that respectable... but they are admitidly getting there...

 

I think the Berlin plans will put a massive dent in this for 2020... 

Unsure. Some observers noticed that the cost of the factory is more or less the same they will get from Fiat for EV emission credits. Also China´s production will help a lot with profit and average margins.

 

But the big thing will come in a few months, when they show the new battery technology.

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1 minute ago, SpiderPig said:

Will the new batteries consist of the same old cobalt etc that the kids are trying to dig as fast as they can?  ;)

You mean the same cobalt that is in your cellphone and your computer? The same cobalt used to produce stainless steel? 

 

Maybe it will be in the new batteries, maybe not. 

https://www.wired.com/story/alternatives-to-cobalt-the-blood-diamond-of-batteries/

 

Luckily they will most definitely not contain poisonous lead, like in your car right now.

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14 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Will the new batteries consist of the same old cobalt etc that the kids are trying to dig as fast as they can?  ;)

Tesla is already using a very reduced quantity compared with other manufacturers. They also "aspire" to go to 0% of Cobalt, but nobody knows how much the new battery will have. Maybe 3% as they do now, or less.

 

Still much better than VW, by the way! The ID3 has 12-14% of cobalt, meaning for the same capacity, one VW ID3 will use as much Cobalt as 4 Teslas Model 3!

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-batteries-cobalt-volkswagen/

 

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14 minutes ago, BradinBayern said:

 

 

Luckily they will most definitely not contain poisonous lead, like in your car right now.

Per the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), cobalt metal with tungsten carbide is "probably carcinogenic to humans" (IARC Group 2A Agent), whereas cobalt metal without tungsten carbide is "possibly carcinogenic to humans" (IARC Group 2B Agent).

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4 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Tesla is already using a very reduced quantity compared with other manufacturers. They also "aspire" to go to 0% of Cobalt, but nobody knows how much the new battery will have. Maybe 3% as they do now, or less.

 

Still much better than VW, by the way! The ID3 has 12-14% of cobalt, meaning for the same capacity, one VW ID3 will use as much Cobalt as 4 Teslas Model 3!

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-batteries-cobalt-volkswagen/

 

 

So the Tesla Fanboi strikes again!!! 

 

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