Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

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1 minute ago, Keleth said:

Every company should have to produce an impact statement.

 

So why does Tesla get shat upon for doing so?

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

 

So why does Tesla get shat upon for doing so?

At a guess because they`re supposed to be the dogs bollocks of the auto industry for the rescue of the environment.

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

When you`re a company that prides itself on the future of the environment and being THE company that cares you don`t find it strange that they take 16 years to provide an impact report ?

And you have just proved my very 1st point as to why people keep talking about the impact of producing batteries.It is because of people like you who see EV autos as the clean future and forget the impact of the batteries and think that once EVs become standard then problems over.

Yep can`t understand it either.Every company should have to produce an impact statement.

I will write to Elon Musk and the heads of all the other major auto companies immediately and communicate your demands. 

How is it that they "forgot the impact of the batteries" when it is right there in the report?  Did you not read it?

I don't know how else to communicate this to you so that you can understand it without the use of crayons. No one sees "EV autos as the clean future" they see "EV autos as the cleanER future".    Any human activity causes some sort of environmental damage or the other. 

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The contract to buy the land to build the Tesla factory on, has still not been signed. On Saturday the locals in Grünheide , will protest against the building of the factory, they are concerned about possible problems with groundwater in the area after the build.  It would be great for this part of Brandenburg and Berlin to have Tesla, I don't think it will happen.

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51 minutes ago, Keleth said:

At a guess because they`re supposed to be the dogs bollocks of the auto industry for the rescue of the environment.

No, they are respected because there would be no EV industry without Tesla, or at least not for another 50 years or so.  They were the innovators who have shown what can be done.  Before Tesla, electric cars were mostly crap.  Who else would driven the market to where it is today?  Plus the fact that the have built one of the most highly acclaimed cars (of any type) in history.  Have you driven one?  They are excellent cars by any standard.  However, no one, not even Elon Musk, has said that Tesla alone will save the environment.  I don't see where you are getting that. 

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2 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

I don't see where you are getting that. 

 

The naysayers always have a problem with arithmetic: they cannot add and only subtract.

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Charging stations growing like weeds. Too bad nobody wants an ecar.;)

Quote

 

European automakers' network of highway charging stations for battery-powered vehicles is taking shape ahead of an expected surge in electric car sales as manufacturers strive to meet new emission limits.

Ionity, the joint venture created among automakers to build the network, said Thursday it has completed more than 200 stations and expects to have 400 operating by the end of the year. Each station has 4-6 charging columns.

The highway network is seen as a key step in convincing car buyers they can switch to electrics and still take long highway trips without worrying about running out of juice during a family vacation.

Ionity CEO Michael Hajesch gave the progress update as the company unveiled the price for electricity at its high-speed stations in 20 — soon to be 24 — countries. Munich-based Ionity is a joint effort among BMW, Daimler, Ford, and Volkswagen Group, which also includes Audi and Porsche.

Last year, battery-powered cars accounted for only 2% of the market in Europe but manufacturers need to sell more to meet tougher European Union limits on greenhouse gas emissions coming into effect from 2021. Carmakers that don't meet the limits face fines of thousands of euros per vehicle.

The network is also a response to California-based electric car maker Tesla, which has its own charging network. The Ionity network will be open to Tesla owners.

Hajesch said Ionity would charge 79 euro cents per kilowatt hour for customers who don't have a contract with a mobility service provider for a different rate. That replaces the previous price of 8 euros ($8.80) per charging session.

The new price to charge up quickly on the highway and be on one's way is higher than what car owners typically pay to charge overnight at home, where charging might cost around 30 euro cents per kilowatt hour but takes hours. Ionity's 350-kilowatt stations mean charging could be completed in as little as 10-15 minutes for cars that can take full advantage; other models will charge more slowly.

 

 

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On 1/17/2020, 9:26:18, Krieg said:

 

There it goes your prediction Tesla fanboi, Fiat Chrysler announces partnership with Foxconn to make e-cars for China, they are going for the biggest EV market in the world. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lianeyvkoff/2020/01/16/fiat-chrysler-and-foxconn-partner-to-build-electric-cars-in-china/#20c9ff87d9e2

 

P.S., I remember you mentioned several times that Fiat was done, well, we will see.

Elon did say they were planning on selling powertrains and perhaps batteries for other manufacturers. So I am not making this up from thin air. Second, Foxconn (which I know professionally) is just a huge factory, they have no expertise on batteries nor cars, they just have a huge amount of employees. Their agreement with Fiat does not exclude Fiat from buying a powertrain from Tesla and ask Foxconn to assemble it.

 

On 1/17/2020, 9:26:18, Krieg said:

 As I mentioned Tesla will miss their chance of global domination because of their slowness to bring a car for the masses, it doesn't matter if their technology is vastly superior.

They actually showed a sketch for a smaller model this week, supposedly to be manufactured in China. You are making the same stupid mistake as many: underestimating Musk. I've been following him because of SpaceX since 2005. People have made all the same stupid arguments as you keep throwing.

 

Note this: Musk's companies relentlessly improve processes and costs until domination. SpaceX is already dominating the launch market and their next step (Starship + Starlink) will increase launch capacity so much that they are even creating several complete new markets.

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On 1/16/2020, 8:54:07, SpiderPig said:

How much co2 is emitted into the atmosphere in the production of electricity? 

 

On 1/17/2020, 9:09:05, Keleth said:

TBH because of people like you and MikeMelga.All we ever hear is how wonderful eautos are and keep pollution out of cities (they are much better than ICE autos)but forget to mention the bad stuff associated with them.

You could also ask why do Tesla and any manufacturer producing the new wave of accu items never mention the environmental impact of the batteries or the waste from their manufacturing plants.

I've posted over and over on this topic. If you don't want to read it, it's not my fault. It is a long explanation because there are many factors in account but just to give you 2 extreme examples:

  • Even if your electricity all comes from coal (worst possible example), an EV still "generates" less pollution than an ICE over its lifetime.
  • Most ridiculous example: if you charge an EV from a diesel generator, it still pollutes less than a diesel car, as the diesel generator is much more efficient than a diesel car and because an EV is 3x more efficient than a diesel car! 

BTW, for the last example, you can ask "then why don't you take a generator inside the car?". Well, that's a Chevrolet Volt. The big downside is that you need to maintain two systems, hence a pure EV is always cheaper to maintain.

 

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Mike... As long as you think the tail can "wag the dog"...  you will live in your Eutopia...

 

Diesel is the most economical fuel there is...   get over it!..

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3 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

Mike... As long as you think the tail can "wag the dog"...  you will live in your Eutopia...

 

Diesel is the most economical fuel there is...   get over it!..

 

If I am telling you loud and clear that an EV charged by a diesel generator is more economical than a pure EV car, how can diesel be more economical?

BTW, I have just completed 7000km in my EV. As I have been a naughty boy, I have floored the car more than I should have. I also have a ultra slow commute through the mitlerer ring,  so my average consumption is not good. Also I don't have a night tariff, which could save me some money. But by my calculations, I spent 330€ charging my car at home (in reality half of it is on free charger in supermarkets). My other car, a diesel, would cost easily 600€ or more to go the same range, on the same commute.

 

And this is Germany, where electricity is extremely expensive. In Portugal it would cost me 250€ or less.

 

This is before we go into the largest savings: maintenance! Overall I expect 2000€ savings per year compared to diesel, on a 15.000km driving, which is nothing special. No oil to change, no belt replacement, no exhaust system problems, no turbo problems to solve, not even brakes to replace!

 

Forget the environment argument, people with move to EVs simply because they will have a smaller TCO!

 

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On 1/17/2020, 5:01:01, SpiderPig said:

maybe I should have said "Mis-use" the priviledge...  

 

30 minutes charging and you buy a  box of salt!   

In Portugal large hypermarkets have cheaper gasoline pumps in their parking lots. They are so cheap that they make no money on it. But if they don't have them, people will go elsewhere.

 

Same will happen with charging stations: the supermarket without free or cheaper charging stations will lose a lot of costumers. As an example, I never shopped at Aldi, but right now I go there once or twice a week. During each shopping, I get back around 2 days of commute.

They can also combine that with "loyalty cards", which are not a big thing in Germany. So there you link purchases with free charging times. 

 

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3 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Forget the environment argument, people with move to EVs simply because they will have a smaller TCO!

 

You didn't mention the largest cost incentive...manufacturing.  That's really why the EVs are here.

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On ‎17‎.‎01‎.‎2020‎ ‎17‎:‎01‎:‎01, SpiderPig said:

...

30 minutes charging and you buy a  box of salt!   

 

quit putting words in my mouth, troll.  I buy a fair amount of groceries when I charge. 

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Amid protest, Tesla signs Gigafactory 4 contract; access road starts construction

 

Quote

Tesla is gearing up to build their next factory, Gigafactory 4, on the outskirts of Berlin, Germany.  Here’s a rundown of the latest news on the company’s next big Project.

 

Last week, Brandenburg parliament approved the plan to sell land to Tesla at the planned site of Gigafactory 4.  The 302-hectare plot of land will be sold for €41 million ($45 million).  There’s a chance that this price might still change slightly, based on an appraisal which should happen at the end of this month.  At the time, Tesla had not yet signed the purchase contract themselves, and said they would wait until mid-January to do so.

 

Now, according to Der Tagesspiegel, Tesla has signed the purchase contract, moving forward on purchasing the land.

Link above for the rest

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On 1/19/2020, 8:39:25, MikeMelga said:

 

If I am telling you loud and clear that an EV charged by a diesel generator is more economical than a pure EV car, how can diesel be more economical?

BTW, I have just completed 7000km in my EV. As I have been a naughty boy, I have floored the car more than I should have. I also have a ultra slow commute through the mitlerer ring,  so my average consumption is not good. Also I don't have a night tariff, which could save me some money. But by my calculations, I spent 330€ charging my car at home (in reality half of it is on free charger in supermarkets). My other car, a diesel, would cost easily 600€ or more to go the same range, on the same commute.

 

And this is Germany, where electricity is extremely expensive. In Portugal it would cost me 250€ or less.

 

This is before we go into the largest savings: maintenance! Overall I expect 2000€ savings per year compared to diesel, on a 15.000km driving, which is nothing special. No oil to change, no belt replacement, no exhaust system problems, no turbo problems to solve, not even brakes to replace!

 

Forget the environment argument, people with move to EVs simply because they will have a smaller TCO!

 

@MikeMelga, serious question, how do you arrive at a savings of 2000 EUR / year? That seems awfully high, I’d like to know the basis/assumptions of that calculation. What type of car needs >10k in repairs over 5 years? 

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17 minutes ago, Dubya said:

@MikeMelga, serious question, how do you arrive at a savings of 2000 EUR / year? That seems awfully high, I’d like to know the basis/assumptions of that calculation. What type of car needs >10k in repairs over 5 years? 

 

 

That's a typical Melgasm, he starts with reasonable good arguments but then he stretches the numbers to Wonderland level making the whole thing laughable.

 

I guess he is adding there the taxes and energy savings, but I think he is stretching it a lot.  The average car maintenance costs in Germany are around 750 EUR a year, and a new car should be on the lower side.

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1 hour ago, Dubya said:

@MikeMelga, serious question, how do you arrive at a savings of 2000 EUR / year? That seems awfully high, I’d like to know the basis/assumptions of that calculation. What type of car needs >10k in repairs over 5 years? 

- 600-700€ fuel costs

- 250€ circulation tax

- 4-5x less brake replacements over 200.000km

- my history of maintenance costs with Mercedes

 

I´m comparing with a 2010 Mercedes C class BlueEffificency Diesel.

 

This is for a 15.000km yearly drive, mostly on dense city traffic. I´m not even counting free charging I get from supermarkets, otherwise it would be higher.

A friend of mine working in Ingolstadt has a 150km per day commute and he has free charging on his company. He is thinking of buying a Tesla because it would save him 3500-4500€ per year.

 

...and... this is without the biggest saving: depreciation! Tesla has historically a low depreciation and the Model 3 seems to have even much less than Model S, although not enough data is available.

 

51 minutes ago, Krieg said:

That's a typical Melgasm, he starts with reasonable good arguments but then he stretches the numbers to Wonderland level making the whole thing laughable.

Like we say in Portugal, sounds like elbow pain!

 

51 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

I guess he is adding there the taxes and energy savings, but I think he is stretching it a lot.  The average car maintenance costs in Germany are around 750 EUR a year, and a new car should be on the lower side.

I am putting in taxes, but that is only a small part. What energy savings are you talking about?

 

 

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