Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

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We just drove home with 5 Klapboxes, an accordion and various other things in the back of our Ionic. We will never need to carry more than that. We think it has as much space as our Skoda combi.

 

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

And all the physical knobs are just a reminder that all those subsystems are not properly integrated together, as they come from different suppliers

 

They are all integrated into the touch screen and voice command so I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

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Some fire broke out in Tesla plant in Berlin. For people expecting Q4 deliveries, it might delay further :(

The cause of fire is not know, but it was suspicious.

This is really crap if someone has done it on purpose, or could it be the effects of completion in the market

 

I am worried if it will effect further the delivery date for LR Model Y

 

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/mensch-metropole/gruenheide-nach-grossbrand-bei-tesla-buergerinitiative-fordert-sofortigen-produktionsstopp-li.270840

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DanglingPointer said:

Some fire broke out in Tesla plant in Berlin. For people expecting Q4 deliveries, it might delay further :(

The cause of fire is not know, but it was suspicious.

 

Tesla CEO Elon Musk, the new Tesla factory located in Grünheide near Berlin is a “giant money incinerator”.

 

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Tesla AI Day 2022

 

 

 

Fascinating, if a little technical but there's a "best of" here: https://www.cnet.com/videos/tesla-ai-day-2022-the-biggest-announcements/

 

Interesting are some media outlets rather "selective" reporting (Reuters saying it can wave but not walk) See the robot walk out in above video at about 17:20...

 

I guess Reuters means the second new iteration 

 

(honest mistake guv!)

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I watched the whole thing in detail, here are my takes:

- as an engineer, I would like to see as much as possible, but as an investor, I think Tesla should keep the robot project hidden, it's a weapon from far left against Tesla, and clearly an early prototype which media will make fun of.

- the most impressive thing about the robot is they are thinking from the start in cost and energy consumption. This is not going to be a fancy prototype to show to investors, like Boston Dynamics. This thing is going to be mass produced!

- the battery, power electronics, sensors and computer are all mature and already in mass production, because they are the same used in every Tesla. This is huge. My estimation (based on known costs) is that those core parts cost less than $2500, so a $20.000 "price" is not completely unrealistic

- The big problem with Boston Dynamics is their software. The mechanics are wonderful and clearly the largest jump in robotics ever. But the software is very basic, and that's why the company goes nowhere and keeps being sold around. Tesla on the other hand is using the same software as self driving. Expect fast progress

- DOJO is not yet paying off, but in Q2-Q3 next year will accelerate self driving improvements by a large factor

- self driving team seems to be on a path for incremental improvements with no ceiling so far, avoiding local maximums found in 2017-2020.

 

The general media won't take this well, but anyone with more technical background can see there is some serious engineering going on, and especially a serious business plan.

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For now if they can sort out the deliveries of cars, investors and buyers like me will be happy.

Just waiting for delivery which was supposed to happen in Sep-Oct 200 and now moved to Dec-Feb 2023. This is quite frustrating

 

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Tesla is removing Ultrasonic sensors from new models.

https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

 

This to me is a bit of a shocker. Why Tesla is going with so many change and chop options?

The front bumper doesn't have any camera? How will it be to park in tight parking spots without front sensors.

Though, I am not an expert but I think sensors are required especially in bad weather situations like fog, rain, snow? How can Cameras do the job in such weather.

Is Tesla doing this just to save costs or to avoid supply chain issues or are they so confident purely on vision. I think this is a crap step to remove sensors.

 

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From your link:

 

Quote

Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.

 

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39 minutes ago, DanglingPointer said:

Tesla is removing Ultrasonic sensors from new models.

https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

 

This to me is a bit of a shocker. Why Tesla is going with so many change and chop options?

The front bumper doesn't have any camera? How will it be to park in tight parking spots without front sensors.

I would be highly suspicious, but they also ditched radar a year ago. A month ago my car got an update that disabled the radar. TBH, the car drives better now on AP, so I have to give them the benefit of doubt.

 

39 minutes ago, DanglingPointer said:


Though, I am not an expert but I think sensors are required especially in bad weather situations like fog, rain, snow? How can Cameras do the job in such weather.

Absolutely not, ultrasonic sensors are just for proximity, they don't work well beyond 2 meters.

And Tesla cameras work fine in heavy rain or fog. Never tested it properly with heavy snow.

 

39 minutes ago, DanglingPointer said:

Is Tesla doing this just to save costs or to avoid supply chain issues or are they so confident purely on vision. I think this is a crap step to remove sensors.

I guess supply chain issues, but I would wait to see how well it performs. Radar was removed and the system actually improved, from my experience.

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@Janx Spirit, I'm unsure if the occupancing network works in scale good enough for parking sensors. One thing is a 30cm accuracy (estimated by many) when driving, another is a 30cm accuracy when parking. Of course this accuracy is probably much better at short distances, so it might work at all, let's see.

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When Car is parked outside in winter Cameras get blocked due to frost? So is it that first we clean the cameras before doing a parallel park?

In extreme weather I don't think the camera can work fine. At times, when visibility is low even human eye finds it hard. How is the camera gonna work in that situation? In those cases, sensors are useful, in my opinion.


Not sure if Tesla has thought about all the use cases before taking this step :D  or are they doing it in a hurry. Of course, they might have tested all these things, but leaving sensors for tight parking spots would have done no harm.

What for people like me who ordered in Q1/Q2 last year based on existing conditions and now they are removing the sensors?

Elon is known to do crazy things like what he is doing now again with Twitter and sometimes I am worried being a Tesla owner and being an Investor in Tesla. He has both the qualities of going up and going down considerable fast :-)

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, DanglingPointer said:

When Car is parked outside in winter Cameras get blocked due to frost? So is it that first we clean the cameras before doing a parallel park?

In extreme weather I don't think the camera can work fine. At times, when visibility is low even human eye finds it hard. How is the camera gonna work in that situation? In those cases, sensors are useful, in my opinion.

 

Sensors have the same issue... that's why usually they have heaters. And if you don't clean the snow, they will beep like crazy. Be aware that cameras work differently from human eye+brain. In some cases where we struggle, cameras work just fine. Fog is a good example.

The car will tell you if one camera is blocked and it can't be used as expected. Usually AP tolerates some camera missing, but I guess for parking it won't.

 

Quote

Not sure if Tesla has thought about all the use cases before taking this step :D  or are they doing it in a hurry. Of course, they might have tested all these things, but leaving sensors for tight parking spots would have done no harm.

It might be the case as with radar. On the first couple of months, AP was terrible without radar. Tesla just pushed it out and hoped SW would compensate for it. Now it works fine without radar. I notice in some situations it's not so smooth, but in 90% of the cases it's working better.

 

Quote


What for people like me who ordered in Q1/Q2 last year based on existing conditions and now they are removing the sensors?

Elon is known to do crazy things like what he is doing now again with Twitter and sometimes I am worried being a Tesla owner and being an Investor in Tesla. He has both the qualities of going up and going down considerable fast :-)

Yep, Tesla car or stock ownership comes together with Elon's crazyness. Good and bad. Last month got 3 new SW updated with great features. Last 2 days Elon said shit about ukraine.

And today my Mercedes's engine warning light came on, and reminded me how expensive and frustranting ICE cars are. I'm sticking with Tesla.

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4 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

And Tesla cameras work fine in heavy rain ...

 

This is not my experience. Autopilot functions invariably get reduced in heavy rain because a side camera gets obscured.

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https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

 

Scroll to the bottom. Seems reverse summon (leave the car and it will self-park) is coming by the end of the year. They can only be confident on ditching ultrasonic sensors if they are sure about camera-only parking.

Will reverse summon work well? No idea. But it's a clear indication they think they can ditch the ultrasonic.

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S&P upgraded Tesla to BBB, above junk. This is very good news for the stock, as it allows certain investment funds to buy Tesla.

Moody is probably following S&P within 2 weeks.

This was long due, Tesla finances are way better than most automotive companies, but for non quantitative reasons (and probably bribes) the rating agencies were keeping Tesla debt as "junk".

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About this sensor issue, I am pretty convinced the system would fail in my garage with some objects that the camera can't capture reliably because they are simply no longer visible from half a meter in front of the car. I can't imagine how the system should work as well or better than USS

My Garage is too tight and senor gave me precise information how far is the pillar. How will camera measure this information? 

 

Maybe, Tesla wants to sell more bumpers when people break their cars on the pillar :wink:

New revenue stream from Elon:innocent:

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No idea if it will work well. TBH I use the 3 rear cameras to park on my garage, not the sensors. I park too close for the sensors to be useful (<30cm).

Remember that if the objects are static, the camera doesn't need to see them all the time. It knows where it is, when you drove in. The problem is with non-static objects, like other cars.

Temporary occlusion is a solved problem by Tesla.

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