Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

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7 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Sounds like a normal work contract. Where is the problem?

 

40 hours per week is full time (in Germany, of course).

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Of course it is but people on salary often work more when needed. Hourly wagers get overtime if they work more.

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10 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Of course it is but people on salary often work more when needed. Hourly wagers get overtime if they work more.

 

Yes, but if my boss told me I had to work 40 hours/week minimum in the office if I want to do home office I'd be left wondering about his mental health - given that I have a 40 hours/week contract and don't intend to work a single hour more* :P

 

*averaged through the year, if a deadline bites it bites.

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Maybe this is why ESG do not like Tesla very much and give them a bum score, although I am sure someone will be along soon to explain it to us

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Yep, covid really spoiled people. How many were doing home office before?

 

I tend to see one of 2 opinions. Get everyone back into the office OR we actually quite like home working, and will do some amount of get together when it's needed.

 

I posted this because of two reasons. Firstly the 'minimum' of 40 hours in order to have the 'benefit' of working more hours at home. Oh such a lucky person that Tesla employee must be. It really highlights why European countries do actually have maximum working time regulations, to avoid such exploitation.

As you say many permanent employees do work much longer hours than a standard contract because they believe that either gets them promoted or because they fear loosing the job they have.

 

Secondly, because it typifies the first belief, that everyone in the office is the best solution. Many employees prefer this style of working

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-60546947

Not least because it frees them from the pointless commute and being forced to live some close distance to the company in order to have a reasonable commute time.

Commuting to/from work has got to be one of the biggest waste of time anyone ever invented, and to top it off, employees pay for the privilege.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220420-the-sky-high-cost-of-returning-to-the-office

 

For the most part managers who have never had remote employees, like employees being in the office, so they can directly see what is happening and get responses quickly.

I think it depends a lot on how the company has managed the change and if they really adopted the remote model well, or begrudgingly accepted it, until covid passed.

Resetting the clock and pretending covid didn't happen and just 'returning to normal' I think is going to be far from trivial.

I know a few companies that already lost people because they tried to force them back into the weekday office routine. It's difficult to close Pandora's box again.

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All good points, scook.

 

Unfortunately, a few bad apples who took advantage of working from home have spoiled it for others.

 

The problem is paying for all of that unused office space. There needs to be a lot of changes.

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There are plenty of ways to monitor an employee's productivity when working remotely. From a company point of view, a massive reduction in overheads can be achieved if all the office space is removed.

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28 minutes ago, French bean said:

From a company point of view, a massive reduction in overheads can be achieved if all the office space is removed.

 

Goes without saying. So would they pass those savings along to their employees and customers?

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Just now, fraufruit said:

 

Goes without saying. So would they pass those savings along to their employees and customers?

Of course not, it goes to the shareholders and the directors bonuses for doing such a fantastic job.

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I have mixed opinions regarding home office. I've seen people performing better, but in general it's not good in the long run. People lose team spirit, some just pretend to work, and people abuse calls after business hours.

Personally I think we should go back to at least 3 out of 5 days to office.

Another point is that if this home office thing keeps going for more than 5 years, there will be massive mental problems, either from lack of social interaction or creation of bad habits. The drinking cabinet is just too close...

In my company I also know our production department, including the engineers, are pissed that R&D can work from home and they can't.

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35 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I have mixed opinions regarding home office. I've seen people performing better, but in general it's not good in the long run. People lose team spirit, some just pretend to work, and people abuse calls after business hours.

Personally I think we should go back to at least 3 out of 5 days to office.

Another point is that if this home office thing keeps going for more than 5 years, there will be massive mental problems, either from lack of social interaction or creation of bad habits. The drinking cabinet is just too close...

In my company I also know our production department, including the engineers, are pissed that R&D can work from home and they can't.

Somehow I knew that was you who wrote this when I saw it on the front page. Man, I haven't really said anything before, but apparently you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things! (which is fine, when I think you're full of shit, I just keep it to myself as you are allowed to have your own opinions, even if they are wrong :P- mainly referring to crypto)

 

Obviously I can only base this on myself, I was home office before Covid- we dont even have an office. I took a bit of a cut in wages when I took this job, but I'm better mentally now than when I had to go to the office or to customers all the time. 

 

I personally hate that team spirit shit. I dont like work. I dont like working (for the most part, sometimes I do enjoy when I've been working on a problem for a while and finally solve it). I dont want to hang out with these people, I just want to work my required 40 hours per week and take my 6 weeks of vacation and thats it.

 

I procrastinated and played around on the internet just as much when I was in the office as I do when I am working from home. Social interactions I still have- and with people who I actually want to socialize with! Sure bad habits, not getting work done and drinking too much/too early- those are self control things, and honestly will sort themselves out on their own. 

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2 minutes ago, BobbyDigital said:

I personally hate that team spirit shit. I dont like work. I dont like working (for the most part, sometimes I do enjoy when I've been working on a problem for a while and finally solve it). I dont want to hang out with these people, I just want to work my required 40 hours per week and take my 6 weeks of vacation and thats it.

That's fine, plenty of jobs work well for people like you.

On my teams, team spirit and good communication are the top 2 requirements, because we need them. It's a stressful job that requires mutual help. But plenty of other projects out there that don't require it.

On the upside, we work with technology from customers which will only be announced in 2-4 years. Our work is very rewarding, because it's much more than software. But of course it's very demanding.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I have mixed opinions regarding home office. I've seen people performing better, but in general it's not good in the long run. People lose team spirit, some just pretend to work, and people abuse calls after business hours.

Personally I think we should go back to at least 3 out of 5 days to office.

Another point is that if this home office thing keeps going for more than 5 years, there will be massive mental problems, either from lack of social interaction or creation of bad habits. The drinking cabinet is just too close...

In my company I also know our production department, including the engineers, are pissed that R&D can work from home and they can't.

 

 My post-covid goal is two to three days per week at home. You're forgetting the corporate advantages of home office: a much bigger talent pool to hire from (this is the biggest one for me, we just got an extremely good engineer from Bad-Wuttemberg on board, he wouldn't have come without this flexibility), smaller offices, smaller parking places, and a more motivated workforce -> I've been doing some home office for years, basically since my first child was born, and love/need the flexibility. Then come the advantages for the environment, for city planning, etc.

 

Some in our Production department are also pissed: to those I can only tell life is made of decisions and they are what they worked for. They also have some advantages I don't have, including clocking out at 15:00 o'clock and not think about their job for the rest of the day or weekend. My wife can't do home office as well and she has studied more than any of those guys (and me).

 

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3 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

You're forgetting the corporate advantages of home office: a much bigger talent pool to hire from

 

I think now in the post-covid times your pool will become extremely small if you do not offer home office for certain jobs.   We had had serious difficulties finding people because of our 1-day home office a week policy, which most candidates find "Not in line with the current market", so our only choice is to settle for the ones that are willing to accept it, which has brought us new employees with very little experience and zero German language skills.  

 

I myself am no fan of 100% home office, I always thought I would like it but I tried and I didn't enjoy it.  2+3 or 3+2 would be my preference.

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This is why I find it so strange, Tesla is ruling out home office, surly it does not matter whether you do your work at home or in the office as long as you are good at your job, and you can communicate well with the people you need to.

 

There are broad groups, some like it some do not, some like to mix it, who gives a fuck how you work as long as it works for the company, only change it if does not work.

 

I prefer home office 2 or 3 days a week, as I get the right balance of talking to people and being left alone to do my work without to much disturbance. Cannot understand this move of Musk, its bound to piss some good works off, and then they leave, giving Tesla another problem to find someone who is good and can accept zero home office. 

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1 minute ago, yesterday said:

This is why I find it so strange, Tesla is ruling out home office, surly it does not matter whether you do your work at home or in the office as long as you are good at your job, and you can communicate well with the people you need to.

Tesla had 3 million applications in 2021. SpaceX a similar level. They can be picky,

I think people underestimate the problems of home office. It doesn't work for all teams. They might have to interact with hardware. That is extremely difficult to do remotely!

During the initial Covid lockdown, we had 2 people in the office every day just to reconfigure the hardware for home office colleagues. And still, it was crap.

 

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I have mixed opinions regarding home office. I've seen people performing better, but in general it's not good in the long run. People lose team spirit, some just pretend to work, and people abuse calls after business hours.

Personally I think we should go back to at least 3 out of 5 days to office.

Another point is that if this home office thing keeps going for more than 5 years, there will be massive mental problems, either from lack of social interaction or creation of bad habits. The drinking cabinet is just too close...

In my company I also know our production department, including the engineers, are pissed that R&D can work from home and they can't.

 

Production = works with hands onsite. Many jobs require a physical presence. Just imagine the announcement 'I will by flying the plane from home today...'

Sure, R&D people can work from home, for there is little reason why they 'need' to be together, other than to brainstorm. We seem to have hadly any F2F meetings these days.

 

However, I also miss being around people. Some of us are introverts and prefer the peace. Others are more extroverted and need more social interaction. Now you may find you get on well with work colleagues and enjoy this, or you may wish that Janet would stop talking to Bob on the desk opposite every five minutes. You may even smile at the various office headaches people seem to have with one another...

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