Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

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Ordered a 58kwh Cupra Born today!

 

Shipping date is supposedly August but I kinda expect delays.

 

Including all the options I ordered it was 5000 less than the base Tesla Model 3 but includes dynamic chassis control, full traffic assist package, racing seats, 400W Beats sound system, a lovely blue paint job and a 5-year warranty.

 

Cons:

In comparison to the Model 3, the Born only has 2/3 the HP, 15% less range, less luxurious interior and at times sketchier s/w. For example, I just wanted to turn on the heated steering wheel but all I could end up finding was some icon that said: "Warm up your hands" or something dumb like that. I didn't want hot air blowing! Also, swiping for the temperature control on the slider surface was crap. I swiped delicately and it shot up from 20 to 26c. I could really do without the touch-sensitive controls on the steering wheel. Gimme buttons any day.

 

Pros:

All that said, having traffic sign recognition that automatically adjusts the cruise control is a great feature that Tesla still doesn't have as of yet. The Born's "parking spot finder", 360 camera and fully automatic parking/un-parking is handy too (the latter is only otherwise available with Tesla's 3800 Extended Autopilot). I've read owners claiming VW's navigation is better in Europe than Tesla - does anybody here have any comments about this?

 

I chose the Born because I found the handling, maneuverability and parking much more enjoyable. SEAT/Cupra claim to have made it much more sporty than its sister car, the ID.3; tighter steering, lower to the ground, different suspension tuning. Being 37cm shorter, less boring looking, more fun to drive and somewhat cheaper were all deciding factors of choosing it over the Model 3.

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2 hours ago, circuits said:

All that said, having traffic sign recognition that automatically adjusts the cruise control is a great feature that Tesla still doesn't have as of yet.

Yes it has. For years in US and since a year in Europe. Not to mention that Tesla will adapt speed to the curvature of the road, among others.

The VW Travel Assist is years behind Tesla. Won't work at slow speed (bumper to bumper traffic), won't reduce speed at curves, won't work with bad lane markings, etc.

 

Quote

 I've read owners claiming VW's navigation is better in Europe than Tesla - does anybody here have any comments about this?

Better in what? Really. It uses Google maps and Google traffic data. Re-routing is almost instant.

It interacts great with your phone (send destinations from phone). It automatically routes you to home/office/appointments based on your location and your calendar.

It shows Superchargers and 3rd party chargers.

It plans within seconds a cross-europe trip showing all proposed stops and amount of time.

 

Did you test the Tesla before buying?

 

Congrats and give us feedback when you have it for some time!

 

 

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49 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Yes it has. For years in US and since a year in Europe. Not to mention that Tesla will adapt speed to the curvature of the road, among others.

The VW Travel Assist is years behind Tesla. Won't work at slow speed (bumper to bumper traffic), won't reduce speed at curves, won't work with bad lane markings, etc.

 

 

 

I was test driving the Born for 1h today and Travel Assist worked flawlessly in bumper-to-bumper traffic! It can stop and go on its own and lane markings didn't seem problematic.  (I've driven 1000km in a 2018 Audi Allroad with similar software and lane marking recognition was already decent).

 

Oh - good to know the Tesla has traffic sign recognition now. I see it was introduced in September 2020. I tried a Model 3 in 2020 and it didn't have it at the time.

 

Re. Navigation: not sure what the people in the German Tesla forums were complaining about which is why I asked :)

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People getting jobs at the Schwarzbau in Gruenheide are very surprised to find the conditions of employment and compensation are not as good as they had been led to believe! 😮

 

Now they are trying to establish a Betriebsrat, works council, likely to be a troublesome Zankapfel (bone of contention).

 

Would have been better not to have started the whole kit and caboodle. Surely Wolfsburg could be fitting electric motors to existing vehicles?

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11 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

People getting jobs at the Schwarzbau in Gruenheide are surprised to find the conditions of employment and compensation are not as good as they had been led to believe! 😮

 

Now they are trying to establish a Betriebsrat, likely to be a troublesome Zankapfel (bone of contention).

 

Would have been better not to have started the whole kit and caboodle. Surely Wolfsburg could be fitting electric motors to existing vehicles?

 

But wasn't it Tesla management that decided to start a Betriebsrat?

https://plus.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/tesla-bekommt-einen-betriebsrat-initiative-angeblich-aus-dem-management-313735.html

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Ablenkungsmanoever, diversionary tactic. If the Betriebsrat is elected soon, there are more managers on it, many of the laborers who will be assembling the vehicles have not been employed yet.

 

I bet t----a is spending a lot on smart attorneys.

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1 hour ago, circuits said:

 

I was test driving the Born for 1h today and Travel Assist worked flawlessly in bumper-to-bumper traffic! It can stop and go on its own and lane markings didn't seem problematic. 

Can you activate the system from a standstill? Documentation says you need to start it at least over 20km/h.

 

Also, can you activate it with curbs but no lane marking? I seriously doubt it can do it like this video. And this is a very old video.

 

Here is a more recent version and I confirm this is the behavior I see in mine. No FSD, just standard autopilot.

 

 

How good is it when a car crosses into your lane and cuts you off?

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Can you activate the system from a standstill? Documentation says you need to start it at least over 20km/h.

 

 

Sorry I didn't make it clear that in my mind we were talking about two different things. 1) The stop-and-go traffic assist doesn't necessarily steer. It just stops and starts along with traffic. 2) Lane keeping indeed only engages at higher speeds.

 

Cars cutting off causes automatic braking.

 

fwiw my idea of driver assistance isn't "autopilot" so I'm perfectly content with what it does. For anyone expecting a Tesla-autopilot equivalent from the VW group any time soon, keep dreaming. Tesla has a massive lead.

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I think Cupra will sell very well, the styling is great and trendy. And it's good we arrived at the time where people can buy the EV that they like, by personal taste, no longer need to make the super-logical choice.

I wish Mercedes would accept Tesla's offer to provide software, batteries and power train. A Tesla-powered Mercedes would be a great car, and probably my choice.

I think Tesla will take around 20%-25% of the market, but mostly by providing either SW, batteries or powertrain. Nobody wants to see that many Teslas on the road.

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34 minutes ago, theGman said:

What is the most affordable EV right now in family size? i.e. a combi


The question you should simultaneously be asking is what car can actually be delivered in 2022. Many EV's like the ID.3 are sold out for 2022.

 

In terms of price this is an issue because as of 2023, the up to € 6.000 E-Auto-Prämie has for now been discontinued. There still hasn't been an announcement if it will resume next year. However the 3.570 Umweltbonus (taken off by the dealer) will still be in place until 2025.

 

So when calculating the cost, please take delivery times into consideration. And based on what I've seen in forums, be very skeptical of the "unverbindliche Lieferzeit" on the contract because many people are waiting months longer.

 

Cheaper "family size:" aside from the absolutely barebones Dacia Spring, there's the Skoda Enyaq, MG5, Sono Sion (2023), Kia E-Soul, Citroen E-C4, and Opel Mokka-E. Can't remember what else... but I don't know if you consider any of these affordable.

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31 minutes ago, circuits said:

The question you should simultaneously be asking is what car can actually be delivered in 2022. Many EV's like the ID.3 are sold out for 2022.

 

In terms of price this is an issue because as of 2023, the up to € 6.000 E-Auto-Prämie has for now been discontinued. There still hasn't been an announcement if it will resume next year. However the 3.570 Umweltbonus (taken off by the dealer) will still be in place until 2025.

 

So when calculating the cost, please take delivery times into consideration. And based on what I've seen in forums, be very skeptical of the "unverbindliche Lieferzeit" on the contract because many people are waiting months longer.

 

That's a good point. I'm in no rush (next 1-3 years) but if it influences the end price then indeed, that needs to be considered.

 

31 minutes ago, circuits said:

Cheaper "family size:" aside from the absolutely barebones Dacia Spring, there's the Skoda Enyaq, MG5, Sono Sion (2023), Kia E-Soul, Citroen E-C4, and Opel Mokka-E. Can't remember what else... but I don't know if you consider any of these affordable.

 

Thanks. Based on looks alone the Skoda and the MG5 are the only ones that take my fancy. I am not willing to pay any more than €30k for my next car and maybe the MG5 could accomplish that. Until now, I assumed I couldn't afford an all electric family car, but maybe options are slowly starting to become available.

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It's about to get worst. Demand for EVs will outpace production until around 2027, or perhaps even 2030.

I'm waiting for the Tesla Model 2 or a cheaper Model Y made in Berlin. Right now I don't need a new car. But I'm concerned that when I do need one, I might have to wait 1 year.

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44 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

It's about to get worst. Demand for EVs will outpace production until around 2027, or perhaps even 2030.

I'm waiting for the Tesla Model 2 or a cheaper Model Y made in Berlin. Right now I don't need a new car. But I'm concerned that when I do need one, I might have to wait 1 year.

 

I am waiting as well for the Tesla 2 and I expect it to be total chaos because we are way too many people waiting for one.   I think one year waiting would be very optimistic.

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You people do realise there is also massive waiting times for most new cars not just for EVs.

Plus there is still a chip problem so it is only going to get longer.

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28 minutes ago, Keleth said:

You people do realise there is also massive waiting times for most new cars not just for EVs.

Plus there is still a chip problem so it is only going to get longer.

 

Of course we know.  And we know that because of that the price of the used cars went to the roof. 

 

@fraufruit the Tesla 2 can't be ordered yet.  It is not yet out.  We don't know any specs or details, only that it will be small and "cheap".

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