Berlin to get a Tesla Gigafactory

376 posts in this topic

Seat has announced the Mii Electric, the electric version of their small city car which is basically the same as the VW Up and the Skoda Citigo.   The good thing is its price, 20000€ with a range of 265 km and a max speed of 130 km/h.   The VW and Skoda versions will follow later on.   While I still think it is still a bit too expensive for what it is, we are getting there.   The interior is way too basic, and the idea of not having any screen or entertainment system and just letting you connect your own smartphone to the car is clever but I still have the feeling we are losing.

 

I think we are not that far from truly affordable electric cars that will finally disrupt the market, maybe closer than I thought.  And contrary to @MikeMelga's believe, I don't think Tesla will be the big winner of the battle even with their advantage in technology and I don't believe either than traditional car makers will be the big losers.  I think most traditional car makers will transition and succeed and Tesla will become the Apple of EVs, just a high-end brand with slightly better technology and higher prices and no products in the low bracket.  Just a niche brand.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Krieg said:

I think we are not that far from truly affordable electric cars that will finally disrupt the market, maybe closer than I thought.  And contrary to @MikeMelga's believe, I don't think Tesla will be the big winner of the battle even with their advantage in technology and I don't believe either than traditional car makers will be the big losers.  I think most traditional car makers will transition and succeed and Tesla will become the Apple of EVs, just a high-end brand with slightly better technology and higher prices and no products in the low bracket.  Just a niche brand.

You don´t even understand that Tesla is an energy company, that also produces cars. My perspective is that they will dominate when they start selling their powertrains and batteries to other car companies. At some point they will have more Gigafactories making stuff for other car companies than to themselves.

 

Anyway, cheaper alternatives are always welcomed! This Seat has an incredible price (16.000€ after incentives), looks like a very good city commuter. The range looks good, although I would wait for proper testing. One very good point is that charging can go up to 40kW, which despite being much slower than a Tesla (250kW) or a Porsche (320kW), it is still very good, should be good enough to charge the battery in less than 2 hours.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/12/2019, 00:17:58, MikeMelga said:

If you work on the high tech sector, you NEED to secure your employees for a few years. In my company it takes 2-3 months to train a new SW developer and around 1.5 years for him to reach full potential.

It is not a leash, it is a carrot. They can jump out when they feel like it, but they must have some commitment to the company to get some benefits.

Either you have the right mindset to work in these companies or you don't. So I don't expect you to understand it.

On 29/11/2019, 15:50:32, MikeMelga said:

BMW and Audi is highly doubtful as both companies  administrations are full of assholes who think they are the best.

 

 

I also don't expect you to understand the mindset of caring for your employees...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, UpToWick said:

 

 

I also don't expect you to understand the mindset of caring for your employees...

Clearly you have no experience in high tech companies. And no, webpage development is not high tech.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find this all very exciting. I hope they also consider creating a technical museum as well with information and updates on current advances in the technology. Also maybe a Tesla simulator etc...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, UpToWick said:

I also don't expect you to understand the mindset of caring for your employees...

On 12/1/2019, 7:44:49, UpToWick said:

one of the few tools employees have to reduce the amount of screwing that companies apply to them)?

 

Employees are not puppies.

 

You seem to have a problem with companies.  Just what do you do for a living?  Are you in a monastery?  If not, you are subject to the world of business and must exist in a state of perpetual turmoil.

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fraufruit said:

Do you buy products made in China, East Asia, etc.?

Sorry but that`s a ridiculous argument because if some people didn`t they couldn`t afford anything.That`s also like me saying because you live here in Germany with its benefits that you have no right to complain about Trump and the US health system.

Some of us can`t afford to spend for example a couple of hundred € on 2 or 3 items so end up buying stuff made in sweatshops not through the fact we don`t care about the people who make them but through necessity.That`s not hypocrisy that`s how real life is for many people.

Many companies make a nice tidy profit but often do it if not off of the backs of their workers but because of their workers.

No matter how much people belittle manual workers without them those companies wouldn`t survive but these are the ones often abused and discarded by the companies.

Daimler,Audi etc are expected to announce layoffs in the next few weeks.Not because they`re losing money but because they`re not making as much as they want to make.

Jeff Bezos said a couple of weeks ago that he is only looking into space travel because he doesn`t know what else to do with his money.That from a man who didn`t pay his workers a min wage and often made them work in unsafe conditions.Yet he is held up to be some kind of hero by many people who think capitalism how it is practised now is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

This goes back to the whole thing with this board whereas it seems a great majority of people moved here because their earning potential is greater than back home and they simply don`t see anything below their financial level as being important.

I remember a few years back one of you on here even said "I can`t understand why anyone would think taking home 5k a month is a lot of money".

 

 

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, catjones said:

Employees are not puppies.

They`re not untermensch either to be used and abused by their employers so the companies profit line increases yearly.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Krieg said:

Seat has announced the Mii Electric, the electric version of their small city car which is basically the same as the VW Up and the Skoda Citigo.   The good thing is its price, 20000€ with a range of 265 km and a max speed of 130 km/h.   The VW and Skoda versions will follow later on.   While I still think it is still a bit too expensive for what it is, we are getting there.   The interior is way too basic, and the idea of not having any screen or entertainment system and just letting you connect your own smartphone to the car is clever but I still have the feeling we are losing.

 

I think we are not that far from truly affordable electric cars that will finally disrupt the market, maybe closer than I thought.  And contrary to @MikeMelga's believe, I don't think Tesla will be the big winner of the battle even with their advantage in technology and I don't believe either than traditional car makers will be the big losers.  I think most traditional car makers will transition and succeed and Tesla will become the Apple of EVs, just a high-end brand with slightly better technology and higher prices and no products in the low bracket.  Just a niche brand.

12/1/2019, 11:13:27, MikeMelga said:

 

I think you're right with the Apple of EVs analogy. However, auto manufacturers need scale more than tech companies - if you think of the smaller car brands, they usually belong to giants like VW or GM.

 

Also I don't see Musk as a corporate type, able to run a global concern, he's more of a freewheeling entrepreneur, which leads me to believe that he'll be looking for an exit sooner rather than later (anyone remember 'funding secured'?), and there may be some parts of his technology stack that the majors are interested in, so a trade sale seems like a win-win

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

whilst earnings are supposedly commensurable to responsibility, too often it seems earnings are inversely proportional to the amount of effort put in. Not everywhere of course because my wife has so much stress and pressure with her job, her pay needs to be higher even though she's quite senior in her business. However, I've attended board meetings, I've done consultancy type work, rewritten the procedures for a couple of businesses and I've done blue collar jobs. No way does the effort required for the white collar profesional roles match what's required by the blue collar workers. If you want to know what hard work is, spend a week in a hospital, or as a HGV delivery driver or a cleaner or in an Amazon Warehouse.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Keleth said:

They`re not untermensch either to be used and abused by their employers so the companies profit line increases yearly.

Nobody should be abused in the workplace or treated as an Untermensch. I am a great believer in people having a safe, happy and communicative work environment.

Companies DO have to make a profit or they go bust..and what then with the jobs?

 

And, I have experience of this..some employees care less than others about their fellow employees´ welfare by being uncooperative and selfish.

Believe you me.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, john g. said:

Nobody should be abused in the workplace or treated as an Untermensch. I am a great believer in people having a safe, happy and communicative work environment.

Companies DO have to make a profit or they go bust..and what then with the jobs?

 

And, I have experience of this..some employees care less than others about their fellow employees´ welfare by being uncooperative and selfish.

Believe you me.

Yep you`re right which is why Unions or at least a Betriebsrat should be standard working practice and both sides should work together however MM detests unions so I wonder what sort of representation his workers have.

Also let`s not forget most times a business goes tits up it`s not because of the workers but because of the bosses/owners.

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unions and Betriebsrat should be standard practice - yes.No Manchester capitalism. But equally, employees should care about the welfare of their company and , thus, their jobs. I don´t know if most times a company goes tits up if it is because of only the bosses/owners. I have had  some unfortunate experiences when I know for  fact that people didn´t give a shit. I really do.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Krieg said:

I think most traditional car makers will transition and succeed and Tesla will become the Apple of EVs, just a high-end brand with slightly better technology and higher prices and no products in the low bracket.  Just a niche brand.

I`m not to sure about this.

It`s going to take something special to shift the major manufacturers mindset to moving most of the production to EVs (which will happen eventually) whereas Tesla is there already and it`s often more efficient to start with new machinery etc than it is to try and convert the old stuff which the major manufacturers try to do all the time.Until recently  Porsche actually made very few parts of their cars but rather designed them and ordered the parts from outside companies and then Porsche would put them together.Never truly believe a Made in Germany stamp on a Porsche.

It could be that Tesla decides to be a niche brand and not worry about the lower end of the market.

I also wonder if Musk will get bored with Tesla once EVs become standard because they won`t then be seen as something special and Musk seems to be one who likes his ego being stroked.

35 minutes ago, arsenal21 said:

Also I don't see Musk as a corporate type, able to run a global concern, he's more of a freewheeling entrepreneur, which leads me to believe that he'll be looking for an exit sooner rather than later

I get the feeling if Tesla became "corporate" in such a way Musk would be forced out anyway.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, john g. said:

No Manchester capitalism. But equally, employees should care about the welfare of their company and , thus, their jobs.

Thing is it is often hard to care about a multi million/billion worth company when you`re being paid €12-15 an hour.Since our company got taken over a couple of years ago the conditions have improved immensely and gone are the "work harder,there`s plenty of unemployed out there" bosses and production has gone way up and even though we had a good pay increase and other decent benefits so have profits improved remarkably.Ours is definitely an example of if you treat your workers well then the firm benefits.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, john g. said:

THAT is good to hear, Keleth. Win win.

Win.Win for you too as in the last 3 posts you`ve not started to reminisce thus keeping certain people off your back :)

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I DO remember being a DOS at a school in Indonesia and the Harvard-educated teachers not bothering to turn up for school work but the beach bum teachers did...oh...sorry...forgot..no memories!

:D

People with no memories have never lived..oh, shit...I´m at it again!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Keleth said:

I`m not to sure about this.

It`s going to take something special to shift the major manufacturers mindset to moving most of the production to EVs (which will happen eventually) whereas Tesla is there already and it`s often more efficient to start with new machinery etc than it is to try and convert the old stuff which the major manufacturers try to do all the time.Until recently  Porsche actually made very few parts of their cars but rather designed them and ordered the parts from outside companies and then Porsche would put them together.Never truly believe a Made in Germany stamp on a Porsche.

It could be that Tesla decides to be a niche brand and not worry about the lower end of the market.

I also wonder if Musk will get bored with Tesla once EVs become standard because they won`t then be seen as something special and Musk seems to be one who likes his ego being stroked.

I get the feeling if Tesla became "corporate" in such a way Musk would be forced out anyway.

 

10 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

You're right, the big manufacturers are only slowlyy moving to EVs and Tesla has first mover advantage, BUT it doesn't have scale so it won't be able to beat the big companies on price once they get their fingers out

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now