Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

he wants to grab union votes in swing states. Pathetic.

 

a politician wants to grab votes in swing states?  where's the pathos in that?

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On 07/12/2021, 18:15:38, MikeMelga said:

Elon hates it for a good reason: it contains a union bonus that makes no sense. He is pissed with Biden because Tesla was snubbed by Biden, who preferred to showcase GM the "leader" of electrification, because he wants to grab union votes in swing states. Pathetic.

Nothing to do with Musk hating unions then?

Government subsidies to the tune of almost 5bn are wonderful when given to Musk but he doesn´t agree with subsidies when given to someone else hmmmmm.

Also if he´s that concerned about the deficit etc maybe he should pay his fair share of taxes?

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28 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Nothing to do with Musk hating unions then?

Government subsidies to the tune of almost 5bn are wonderful when given to Musk but he doesn´t agree with subsidies when given to someone else hmmmmm.

It's a measure made on purpose to single out Tesla and please the leftists on the party.

By the way, what do you prefer? A shitty company that needs unions to defend workers benefits or a good company that gives good benefits?

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-workers-higher-pay-confirmed-elon-musk/

 

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Also if he´s that concerned about the deficit etc maybe he should pay his fair share of taxes?

He is paying his fair share of taxes. The rest is far leftists with elbow pain, that don't understand the difference between income and net worth.

Biden's fortune plan was an utterly disaster. It was so bad it would fail to get votes even within the democrat party. It's a prime example of far left idiocracy.

There are ways to make them pay more taxes, for example by not allowing loans to buy stock options, but nobody is talking about them. They see a big net worth number and just get greedy.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

By the way, what do you prefer? A shitty company that needs unions to defend workers benefits or a good company that gives good benefits?

 

Unions are not just about benefits, they are about RIGHTS as well, which is even more important.

 

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5 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

Unions are not just about benefits, they are about RIGHTS as well, which is even more important.

 

Then why aren't Tesla workers unionized? They have the RIGHT to be. Somehow, they are not!

Maybe, just maybe, it's because UAW fucked up Fremont when Toyota was the owner, and then Tesla saved many jobs and now nobody there wants to hear about unions!

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/09/19/the-roots-myths-of-the-tesla-union-controversy/

 

More statements on how UAW "rights" fucked up that factory on GM and Toyota times.

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By the early 1980s, the adversarial relationship had deteriorated to the point where employees drank alcohol, smoked marijuana (at the time, an illegal activity), were frequently absent (enough so that the production line couldn't be started), and even committed petty acts of sabotage such as putting "Coke bottles inside the door panels, so they'd rattle and annoy the customer."

Attempts to discipline workers were often met with grievances or even strikes, putting the plant into near-continuous chaos. By 1982, GM had had enough and closed Fremont Assembly and laid off its thousands of workers

 

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If you're wondering how people kept their jobs, well, back then, the UAW was still quite powerful. Under the union contract, it was almost impossible to fire anybody. And if management ticked off the union, workers could just shut the plant down in minutes.

With that sort of leverage, absenteeism became absurd. On a normal day, one out of five workers just didn't show up. It was even worse on Mondays. Billy Haggerty worked in hood and fender assembly. He says so few workers showed up some mornings, management couldn't start the line.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/transcript

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8 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

He is paying his fair share of taxes.

He pays taxes when he sells his shares.Everything else he earns he gets in loans on which he doesn´t pay tax.

Same when Bezos paid income tax on his 80k a year salary he paid himself when running Amazon.

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Then why aren't Tesla workers unionized? They have the RIGHT to be. Somehow, they are not!

So why do Tesla fight against unionisation as apparently it would be cheaper for Tesla for them to be unionized?

8 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

By the way, what do you prefer? A shitty company that needs unions to defend workers benefits or a good company that gives good benefits?

Ah didn´t realise any company that was unionised was a shitty company.

7 hours ago, Krieg said:

Unions are not just about benefits, they are about RIGHTS as well, which is even more important.

Sadly certain peoples outlooks is that the only thing that makes a good company is profit.Doesn´t matter how they achieve it and these people look down on the world from their ivory tower with their "I`m alright Jack" attitude.

These are the same people who believe that anyone can be rich etc etc.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

More statements on how UAW "rights" fucked up that factory on GM and Toyota times.

I´m pretty sure if I wanted to trawl the internet I could find many more examples of how employers fucked over employees than how many time employees fucked over employers.

 

Let me give you an example.

Before Corona my company laid off around 50 people.It was generally accepted by us that about half of these layoffs were justified as some depts just had basically no work because it was being done cheaper by other companies abroad etc.However there was no way the other half were especially as the company had just announced record profits.

About 20 took what was on offer from the company and the rest took the legal fight against it.I think 4 or 5 lost their legal fight but the rest were reinstated.

The legal fight was paid for by IGM and if it wasn´t for them paying for that then I don´t think many would have been able to fight against it.

In fact we still have 1 employee on my shift who won his case but the company appealed the decision so he is still employed but is waiting for his case to be concluded before he is either let go or remains employed.

Who on earth can afford to fight a near 2 year legal battle especially while being unemployed.

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There are truly shitty employers and also lousy employees. That is another discussion but re your final sentence- if you have legal insurance, you are then not alone. I know of many cases, including clients of mine ( insurance stuff ) where this insurance did the trick.

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19 minutes ago, john g. said:

There are truly shitty employers and also lousy employees. That is another discussion but re your final sentence- if you have legal insurance, you are then not alone. I know of many cases, including clients of mine ( insurance stuff ) where this insurance did the trick.

Yes as in Arbeitsrechtschutzversicherung as your personal insurance doesn´t cover your work.

But that also doesn´t cover any other problems that you may have at work or pay rises,benefits etc etc.

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

He pays taxes when he sells his shares.Everything else he earns he gets in loans on which he doesn´t pay tax.

He just sold enough shares to pay $15B in taxes this year. And I already stated I would support a rule that you can't take loans to buy stock options. Pity nobody is talking about it, because it's an easy solution. The only three options would then be: sell existing stock to buy the options, buy them cash, exercise the options and immediately sell part of them to pay for them. All 3 options means paying taxes.

 

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So why do Tesla fight against unionisation as apparently it would be cheaper for Tesla for them to be unionized?

They clearly say they can be unionized. The "fight" is what UAW says to the news. It would not be cheaper for Tesla. See my remarks on why Fremont failed with GM and Toyota: complete lax because UAW union would not allow anyone to get fired.

 

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These are the same people who believe that anyone can be rich etc etc.

And here we reach the critical point: envy. Elbow pain. 

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Who on earth can afford to fight a near 2 year legal battle especially while being unemployed.

So you never heard of Arbeitsrechtversicherung? Maybe you should talk with TT's brokers.

 

EDIT: now I saw @john g. made exactly the same point.

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56 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

So you never heard of Arbeitsrechtversicherung? Maybe you should talk with TT's brokers.

 

EDIT: now I saw @john g. made exactly the same point.

 

Legal coverage from the union is much better than from the legal insurance.  

 

I am not saying you should not have legal insurance (I do have and I do have used it twice already).  I am just stating the facts.

 

If you know you will fight your employer for sure in the near future you should consider joining the union even if you have legal insurance.

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10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

So you never heard of Arbeitsrechtversicherung? Maybe you should talk with TT's brokers.

 

EDIT: now I saw @john g. made exactly the same point.

But not my reply obviously.

So who negotiates benefits,pay rises etc etc ?

Oh wait let me guess the firms offer the workers a good pay rise and benefits every year off their own backs.

FFS you believe if a betriebsrat doesn´t do exactly what you want then they´re useless and worthless.

21 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

A shitty company that needs unions to defend workers benefits or a good company that gives good benefits?

 

Siemens,BMW,VW,Porsche,Daimler, and many other German companies have unions and in most cases good relations with those unions.

Are they shitty companies?

Why do you assume a company with a union must be shit and will be ruined?

10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

They clearly say they can be unionized.

Yes Musk doesn´t try to hinder them in any way does he.Same as Starbucks and many other firms make it easy to unionise.

10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

And here we reach the critical point: envy. Elbow pain. 

So you believe anyone can become rich then?

 

Your problem is that you see anyone who is not rich as not worth the time and is obviously some commie mother.You even assumed that some freaky neighbours of your kids school were commie pinko bastards who threw bottles at kids.

You live in your own little bubble and don´t realise that a whole wide world exists outside of it.

 

 

 

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Anyone can become rich, just not everyone. The chances of it happening are low and not evenly distributed but stories from rags to riches are not exactly uncommon. I'd also argue than everyone  born in Germany or a similar country can live a care free life and become wealthy enough (if not rich) with a frugal attitude and if willing to put up the work.

 

Getting mad at MikeMelga - or Musk for that matter-, who clearly works a lot and takes risks for his money, and thus contributes to our overall wealth, is a bit nonsensical when there are much better targets out there in the form of indolent human beings who won the genetic lottery by being born into filthy rich familes and look down on us all. Or those wastes of space who are famous by virtue of being famous and are otherwise dumb as bricks, and also look down on us all. You get my meaning.

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

 

Siemens,BMW,VW,Porsche,Daimler, and many other German companies have unions and in most cases good relations with those unions.

 

Are they shitty companies?

Why do you assume a company with a union must be shit and will be ruined?

Look at what happened this week with VW Diess. Unions want him out, removed powers from him and just increased the chance that VW will go bust in 5-8 years.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

So you believe anyone can become rich then?

I believe there are people like you that have deep hate/envy for rich people and then come up with stupid ideas to bring them down.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

Your problem is that you see anyone who is not rich as not worth the time and is obviously some commie mother.

Not true!!! I'm spending my latin with you!

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

You live in your own little bubble and don´t realise that a whole wide world exists outside of it.

I lived 10 years with almost no money in the bank, invested all my money, effort and health in my company. I have chronic tendinitis on both arms because of it. I worked up to 320h per month for long periods. And I wouldn't take more than 1 week of holidays per year. I spent weekends passing network cables through walls and more shit like that.

 

One thing I never did was waste my time hating rich people.

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12 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

Anyone can become rich, just not everyone. The chances of it happening low are not evenly distributed but stories from rags to riches are not exactly uncommon. I'd also argue than anyone born in Germany or similar country can live a care free life and become wealthy enough (if not rich) with a frugal attitude and if willing to put up the work.

 

Getting mad at MikeMelga - or Musk for that matter-, who clearly works a lot and takes risks for his money, and thus contributes to our overall wealth, is a bit nonsensical when there are much better targets out there in the form of indolent human beings who won the genetic lottery by being born into filthy rich familes and look down on us all. Or those wastes of space who are famous by virtue of being famous and are otherwise dumb as bricks, and also look down on us all. You get my meaning.

 

 

There are many rich people I don´t have a problem with but certain people like Bezos and Musk and others think that everyone else is there to enrich them.

The problem I have with MM is among many he is the ultimate Tesla and Musk fanboy who will brook no criticism of either.

Also he is an amazing hypocrite who lives in an ivory tower and seems to believe that if he doesn´t experience something then it doesn´t exist.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

Getting mad at MikeMelga - or Musk for that matter-, who clearly works a lot and takes risks for his money, and thus contributes to our overall wealth, is a bit nonsensical when there are much better targets out there in the form of indolent human beings who won the genetic lottery by being born into filthy rich familes and look down on us all. Or those wastes of space who are famous by virtue of being famous and are otherwise dumb as bricks, and also look down on us all. You get my meaning.

That's because it's more than hating. It's also envy! You can only envy what you can see!

Why doesn't he get mad of all those billionaires that spend their money on big yatchs, cocaine and prostitutes?

Musk created tens of thosands of jobs, revolutionized stagnant industries, is doing hugely for climate change control, and still we have haters. Go hate the superyatch crowd!

 

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It seems to be a common theme with American companies to try and dissuade people from joining a Union yet many unionised industries such as those that exist in Germany are just as profitable and innovative as American firms. Having worked for an American owned company who said they didn't recognise Unions, it was telling how many people, including me, were in a Union. It's also a stupid attitude because if there is a dispute within the workforce who then decide the Union will represent them, what are the management going to do? Talk to themselves? I totally agree that in the '70's in the UK the Unions became to powerful and disruptive but Thatcher and co swung the Pendulum too far in the other direction and destroyed a lot of peoples lives. The employers nor the employees should be able to hold the other to ransom but the employer should not be allowed to exploit the workforce for personal gain, everybody in a business contributes to it's profitability and I question whether some business managers are as productive as they like to think they are. People are not slaves or servants, they contract their time out at a given rate to the employer just like any other supplier of a resource and it looks like at the moment, the shitty employers who treated their staff badly are finding out that people do have a choice and can withdraw their labour and go somewhere else.

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