Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

2,983 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

A few points about this deal with Hertz:

  • 100k cars is probably going to be repeated each year, for fleet renewal
  • More deals like this could come, but unsure if Tesla has enough capacity
  • This could be the start of Robotaxi
  • Tesla owners renting a Tesla with Hertz will be able to just enter the Model 3 and the car will recognize the phone and automatically adjust all settings to the owner, including seat and mirror positions

 

Tesla, Germany and Texas coming online soon, so capacity may not be a problem. But Tesla needs to be planning further plants now. I get the impression that the public want EV's very much and Tesla needs to have solid firm plans to build new factoires, not just there maybe another plant in the UK.

 

Lets remember, the ID3/4 is selling very well in Europe at the moment, is that because Tesla are not making  in Europe yet ?, or because some customers prefer the ID3/4.

 

Very interesting times in automotive at the moment. Tesla has distributed the car market , with EV predicted to outsell Diesel this year. Ojnce the chip shortage is sorted out, maybe we see a clearer picture, as chip shortages are mainly hitting ICE. 

 

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

 

Tesla, Germany and Texas coming online soon, so capacity may not be a problem.

Yes it is, Tesla needs 1-2 new factories per year until 2027.

 

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But Tesla needs to be planning further plants now. I get the impression that the public want EV's very much and Tesla needs to have solid firm plans to build new factoires, not just there maybe another plant in the UK.

Tesla is the only non-Chinese manufacturer with a solid plan. They plan 20 million cars by 2030. Their bottleneck up to 2027 are batteries, so they even had to change their battery technology to allow fast upscale.

I think they will announce a second European factory after Berlin is running. Perhaps one in Japan or a second one in China or both.

Then one in South America or Mexico.

Another point is they found out they can double factory throughput by using the Gigapress. I'm pretty sure Fremont will reach 1 million per year within 2 years.

 

 

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Lets remember, the ID3/4 is selling very well in Europe at the moment, is that because Tesla are not making  in Europe yet ?, or because some customers prefer the ID3/4.

Many reasons. It's not a bad EV, for people who don't care about SW.

Then VW bought Europcar and it is "selling" their EVs to Europcar.

Another point already discussed is that ID.3/4 are being used internally by VW as service cars, but being counted as sales. This way they can lower their average Co2 emissions.

Report from a few months ago stated that about half the sales were internal, although I guess in the past months that ratio dropped.

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ID3/4 isn't outselling Tesla and the Model 3 is outselling both ICEs and rival EVs in the EU:

 

"Tesla Model 3 Becomes First Electric Car to Top Europe Sales"

 

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Tesla Inc.’s Model 3 was the top-selling vehicle in Europe last month, the first time an electric car has outsold rival models with gasoline engines.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-25/tesla-model-3-becomes-first-electric-car-to-top-european-sales

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2 hours ago, Janx Spirit said:

ID3/4 isn't outselling Tesla and the Model 3 is outselling both ICEs and rival EVs in the EU:

 

"Tesla Model 3 Becomes First Electric Car to Top Europe Sales"

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-25/tesla-model-3-becomes-first-electric-car-to-top-european-sales

 

What I mean is if you add the total number of id3 and id  4 together, then VW sold more EV's than Tesla did in the EU so far in 2021

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Volkswagen-ID-3-and-ID-4-surpass-the-sales-numbers-of-the-Tesla-Model-3-in-Western-Europe.573364.0.html

 

Of course you cannot buy the Model Y in Europe yet !!!, it just shows the demand is there from the public, but there is not enough EV's being made at the moment.

 

The figures are at the moment limited by production, you can say a lot of people  buying EV from VW because you cannot by enough Tesla's aswell.

 

We we only really see the true choice of the public, when there is enough production form both of them.

By the way VW has just gone to tipple shifts, to more EV's, but they need more factories ...

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, yesterday said:

By the way VW has just gone to tipple shifts, to more EV's, but they need more factories ...

That's a very simplistic view. VW needs much more and much less.

They need to let go many tens of thousands of employees. ID3/4 are extremely expensive to manufacture.

They need to stop relying so much on suppliers, especially SW and battery.

They need to transform their management chain of command from mechanical engineers towards SW and especially electrotechnic engineers.

 

Diess knows this, but he is paralized by the rest of the management.

I have a suspicion that VW will enter an agreement with Tesla for SW, battery and powertrain.

Tesla knows it can produce 20 million cars per year in 2030, but that would mean too many Tesla on the road. They need to let other manufacturers license their tech.

Imagine a Mercedes experience on a Tesla powertrain and SW.

I still think Tesla will license stuff to Mercedes and VW. Mercedes once saved Tesla and owned 10% of the stock.

BMW and their arrogant leaders can fuck off.

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

That's a very simplistic view. VW needs much more and much less.

They need to let go many tens of thousands of employees. ID3/4 are extremely expensive to manufacture.

They need to stop relying so much on suppliers, especially SW and battery.

They need to transform their management chain of command from mechanical engineers towards SW and especially electrotechnic engineers.

 

Diess knows this, but he is paralized by the rest of the management.

I have a suspicion that VW will enter an agreement with Tesla for SW, battery and powertrain.

Tesla knows it can produce 20 million cars per year in 2030, but that would mean too many Tesla on the road. They need to let other manufacturers license their tech.

Imagine a Mercedes experience on a Tesla powertrain and SW.

 

yes, you are right, Tesla is a good product, but you also have to consider that not everybody wants the same car, look in every carpark you see hundreds of models, each different to the next - people want more choice that the 3 or 4 models that Tesla is offering, because a granny maybe does not want a car with 0 to 100 times in the low 5 seconds. Sometimes people will just want more choice in drive trains, looks, power options, bigger or smaller boots etc the list is endless. 

 

Even you ask what is the best ICE car, it is not there, alot of people want different things  from there cars ... It will be the same with EV's 

 

 

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5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

They need to let go many tens of thousands of employees. ID3/4 are extremely expensive to manufacture.

And this is why I detest you and your ideology.

All that matters to you and your ilk is profit/money,nothing else matters.

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15 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

What matters to you, Keleth? Mike is a Tesla fanboy. What is the harm in that to you?

Nothing at all to do with the  fanboy thing which I find laughable rather than detestable.

What I detest is his throw away comment about VW needing to let go of tens of thousands of employees.

Notice he doesn´t say they will because they want to improve profit etc but actually says they "need" to get rid of tens of thousands.Because in his mind those tens of thousands don´t matter merely the profitability matters.

After all VW only made nearly €10bn profit last year and we wouldn´t want that taking a hit would we,much rather tens of thousands of people take the hit.

 

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

What I detest is his throw away comment about VW needing to let go of tens of thousands of employees.

 

The CEO of VW was the person who brought up the 30K layoffs, not MM.  I guess profitability matters to him.

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Apparently there is a deal with unions not to have any forced layoffs before 2030 so it would not be so easy for VW to let 30,000 people go. I'd guess the intended audience for the CEO's was the incoming government.

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8 hours ago, catjones said:

 

The CEO of VW was the person who brought up the 30K layoffs, not MM.  I guess profitability matters to him.

What else do you expect a CEO to say?

Notice MM didn´t quote him but merely said they need to let go many tens of thousands,which shows where MMs tendencies lie.

MMs whole post is saying what VW need to do to make yet more money.

 

Now I presume you´re going to use the usual profit is everything answer about needing profits/shares to be high because people live off the dividends they get from the shares.If you honestly believe that then you need to look at who the VW shareholders are with only a very minor % being private shareholders and who knows what % of those are actually people who live off the dividends.

 

The attitude of profit tops everything is exactly why in trickle down economics it´s only shit that trickles down.Do we ever get to the €10bn profit in a year is enough rather than always trying to make even more even if it means ruining peoples lives?

Let´s get rid of 30k people and put the onus on those 30k livelihoods on the govt.So let a company (1 that channels some of its profit through Luxembourg)make more profit while putting more financial pressure on a govt and we know where govt funds come fro m.

The profit is everything attitude is the sort of attitude that leads to workers rights being eroded.What´s the next step you would like to see after the layoffs to further enhance profits?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

What else do you expect a CEO to say?

Notice MM didn´t quote him but merely said they need to let go many tens of thousands,which shows where MMs tendencies lie.

MMs whole post is saying what VW need to do to make yet more money.

 

Now I presume you´re going to use the usual profit is everything answer about needing profits/shares to be high because people live off the dividends they get from the shares.If you honestly believe that then you need to look at who the VW shareholders are with only a very minor % being private shareholders and who knows what % of those are actually people who live off the dividends.

 

The attitude of profit tops everything is exactly why in trickle down economics it´s only shit that trickles down.Do we ever get to the €10bn profit in a year is enough rather than always trying to make even more even if it means ruining peoples lives?

Let´s get rid of 30k people and put the onus on those 30k livelihoods on the govt.So let a company (1 that channels some of its profit through Luxembourg)make more profit while putting more financial pressure on a govt and we know where govt funds come fro m.

The profit is everything attitude is the sort of attitude that leads to workers rights being eroded.What´s the next step you would like to see after the layoffs to further enhance profits?

 

 

 

 

Tend to agree with some of what you say but ...

 

VW has been asked for years to make an EV, they said, it would be to expensive, the public do not like it, its too hard, it takes to long to charge the battery etc etc etc... Then came Diesel gate, VW just cheated the system, rather than to using the money they are making to try and make an EV.

 

Lets face it Tesla, has made big progress to towards low emission transport, which is what everybody should what, we cannot keep on using  Petrol and Diesel, we will kill our self and our children, if we do, sure it will keep the VW auto workers in a job, but for how long ?, is that what you really want ?

 

If VW does nothing and does not make EV's at a reasonable price, and Tesla can, then VW workers will find themselves out of a job anyway as VW will not be able to compete on price, assuming EV's will be cheaper to manufacture in the end, which I expected as there are less components.

 

I am generally in favor of workers rights, but not when it will probably lead to the loss of those jobs, because they cannot compete in the longer term, to save the jobs in the short term.

 

Tesla has changed the way cars can be made, they have shown the world, what can be done, sure you can protect the jobs of the workers in the short term, but they will be lost in the longer term, if they do not invest the 10Billion ( and more ) in new tech, that will lead to less cars being made in the longer term. 

 

Things are going to change anyway now, its just the question who is going to benefit ?  Tesla and like minded compaines or VW accepting they have to change their working precises and in some cases take job losses so they can carry on in the future. 

 

Tesla is made to make money, and if VW does not they will go bust, if nobody will buy  and VW there product. If  Tesla can produce a car for less for less than VW by keeping low staff levels and using cheap and safe methods then they will win and VW workers will be on the dole, that just a sad fact and necessary fact or our economy.

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36 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I am generally in favor of workers rights, but not when it will probably lead to the loss of those jobs, because they cannot compete in the longer term, to save the jobs in the short term.

But the only reason they won´t be able to compete is because the companies want a high profit margin.

What you have here and in many cases is a company deciding they need to cut workers (always their first thought) to maintain their profit margin.They cut as many as they possibly can without reducing production.

It´s not that often workers are let go because the company is losing money,it´s mostly so profit margins can be maintained.

40 minutes ago, yesterday said:

rather than to using the money they are making to try and make an EV.

That also makes my point,they paid billions out in fines and it didn´t even dent them.

41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Tesla has changed the way cars can be made,

I´m all in favour of EVs,they are the future.However I`m not in favour of those EVs being solely Teslas which a couple of people on here seem to want.

When a company brings out a new EV it´s a good thing,when it fails well that´s what happens with new stuff.I want all new EVs to succeed not matter who builds them but people in this thread do nothing but destroy any new EV that´s not made by Tesla.

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VW employs thousands of people with training/qualifications related to mechanics, because they are necessary for producing CI vehicles. Pointing out that traditional car manufacturers like VW won't need as many mechanics if/when they move to production of EVs (which I believe was the intended, if perhaps more generous, interpretation), is fair comment. 

The point is what to do with those thousands of people. That is where hopefully some sort of re-training towards either software or electricity storage/generation (both of which areas are likely to be more relevant and necessary for EV production) could be the answer.

 

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

I`m not in favour of those EVs being solely Teslas which a couple of people on here seem to want.

 

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

I want all new EVs to succeed not matter who builds them but people in this thread do nothing but destroy any new EV that´s not made by Tesla.

 

As a matter of fact, we recently took a Hyundai Iconiq 5 for a test drive. We will probably buy one if our HVW puts chargers in the Hof like we've heard they will do.

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2 hours ago, dstanners said:

 Pointing out that traditional car manufacturers like VW won't need as many mechanics if/when they move to production of EVs (which I believe was the intended, if perhaps more generous, interpretation), is fair comment. 

Knowing MM and his profit thinking I unlike you do not believe this in the slightest was what was meant in his post.Also the fact he states they need to get rid of tens of thousands while in the same sentence says because producing EVs is expensive.

 

48 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

As a matter of fact, we recently took a Hyundai Iconiq 5 for a test drive.

I think you know the people I was referring to in my comment about always running down non Tesla EV.

I´ve only seen and read good things about the Iconiq.

50 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

We will probably buy one if our HVW puts chargers in the Hof like we've heard they will do.

Isn´t it at the moment with the incentives from stadt virtually a cost free exercise?

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

 

 

As a matter of fact, we recently took a Hyundai Iconiq 5 for a test drive. We will probably buy one if our HVW puts chargers in the Hof like we've heard they will do.

 

It certainly has rave reviews and looks good.

 

Aug 2, 2021 — Our choice from the range. Top Gear's Hyundai Ioniq 5 review: 2021's best new family EV? Hyundai. 160kW Premium 73 kWh 5dr Auto. £41,890.
 Rating: 8/10 · ‎Review by TopGear

 

We need more players like this, 

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18 hours ago, Keleth said:

And this is why I detest you and your ideology.

All that matters to you and your ilk is profit/money,nothing else matters.

And this is why some people are good managers and others drag companies to bankrupcy: shortsighted.

 

What do you prefer? To let go tens of thousands of irrelevant jobs now, or to risk 307.000 jobs within 5 years.

Not to mention equal amount of workers in supplier companies!

 

What would you do if you were in charge? Let it go down slow and collect your bonus, I'm sure.

Diess is risking his position and his short term bonus in an attempt to save the company.

You and your ultra-friends at the unions are the typical shortsighted who will bring the German auto industry down.

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