Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

[Janx Spirit 11,065]

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

Oh I have no problem with their being a dominant player but do have a problem with there being an only player.

 

 

Only player?

 

Current in-production cars[edit]

See also: List of electric cars currently available

Full-sized cars[edit]

Cars and utility trucks of normal size and capable of 100 km/h (62 mph) highway speed that are currently available.

Aion LX, from 2019.

Aion S, from 2019.

Aion V, from 2020.

Aiways U5, from 2019.

Audi e-tron - Mass production began September 2018.[1]

Audi e-Tron Sportback, from 2020.

Audi e-tron GT, from 2021.

Audi Q2 L e-Tron, from 2019.

BJEV EC3, from 2016.

BJEV EC5, from 2019.

BJEV EU5, from 2018.

BJEV EU7, from 2019.

Bolloré Bluecar operates as part of the Autolib' carsharing in Paris that began service to the general public in December 2011.[2] The Bluecar was the top selling highway-capable electric car in France in 2012.[3]

BMW i3 – Retail sales began in Europe in November 2013.[4] The electric car is available with an optional gasoline-powered range extender that increases the range from 130 to 160 km (80 to 100 mi) to 240 to 300 km (150 to 190 mi).[5] The U.S. release took place in May 2014.[6] Global sales totaled about 65,500 units through December 2016.[7][needs update]

BMW iX3, from 2020.

Buick Velite 6, from 2019.

Buick Velite 7, from 2020.

BYD e1, from 2019.

BYD e2, from 2019.

BYD e3, from 2019.

BYD e5, from 2016.

BYD e6 – Sales to the general public began in October, 2011, in Shenzhen, China.[8]

BYD Han, from 2020.

BYD Qin, from 2012.

BYD S2, also called BYD Yuan EV, from 2019.

BYD Song, from 2015.

BYD Song Max, from 2017.

BYD Tang, from 2015.

Byton K-Byte, from 2021.

Byton M-Byte, from 2021.

Chery eQ, from 2014.

Chery eQ1, from 2016.

Chery eQ2, from 2018.

Chery eQ5, from 2020.

Chevrolet Bolt – The Bolt EV is a 238-mile (383 km) (2017-2019 MY) / 259-mile (417 km) (2020 MY) electric vehicle that became available across North America in mid-2017. First deliveries were made in San Francisco in December 2016.[9]

Chevrolet Menlo, from 2020

Ford Mustang Mach-E, from 2020

Ciimo M-NV, from 2021

Ciimo X-NV, from 2020

DS 3 Crossback, from 2019.

Everus VE-1, from 2019.

Geely Emgrand EV, from 2018.

Geely Emgrand GSe, from 2018.

Geometry A, from 2019.

Geometry C, from 2019.

HiPhi X, from 2020.

Honda e, from 2020.

Hyundai Ioniq introduced in January 2016, nearly 25,000 sold by January 2018. EPA range of 124 miles, 25 kW·h/100 mile.

Hyundai Kona, from 2019.

Jaguar I-Pace, from 2018.

JAC J3 EV – Available in China with 2020 plans for production in Mexico.

Kandi – Models K12, K17A, EX3, K22, were pure EVs available in 2012,[10] in production and sales in China.

Kandi K23, available in China and the US.

Kandi K27, available in China and the US.

Kia Soul EV introduced in the United States in 2014.

Kia Niro

Lada Ellada EV launched in Russia in 2012, with a Lithium iron phosphate battery.

Lotus Evija, from 2020.

Maple 30X, from 2020.

Maple 80V, from 2020.

Mazda MX-30, from 2020.

Mazibuko M1B, prototype

MG ZS EV, from 2018.

Mercedes-Benz EQA

Mercedes-Benz EQB

Mercedes-Benz EQC, from 2019.

Mercedes-Benz EQS

Mercedes-Benz EQV

Mini Cooper SE, from 2020.

Mitsubishi i-MiEV, re-badged to Peugeot iOn, Citroën C-ZERO, from 2010. [11]

Neta N01, from 2018.

Neta U, from 2020.

Neta V, from 2020.

NIO EC6, from 2020.

NIO EP9, from 2016.

NIO ES6, from 2019.

NIO ES8, from 2018.

NIO ET7, from 2021.

Nissan Leaf introduced in the United States and Japan in December 2010,[12][13] followed by several European countries throughout 2011 and 2012.[14] The Venucia e30, based on the Nissan Leaf, was released in the Chinese market on September 10, 2014.[15]

Nissan Sylphy Z.E., from 2018.

Opel Corsa-e F, from 2019.[16]

Opel Ampera-e is a front-engine, five-door all-electric subcompact hatchback; developed and manufactured by Chevrolet in partnership with LG Corporation and has a certified range of 320 mi (510 km) under the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) and 240 mi (390 km) under the more strict Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedures (WLTP).[17]-e

ORA iQ, from 2018.

ORA R1, from 2019.

ORA R2, from 2020.

ORA Haomao, from 2020.

Peugeot 208 II, from 2019.

Peugeot 2008 II, from 2020.

Pininfarina Battista, from 2020.

Polestar 2, from 2020.

Porsche Taycan, from 2019.

Qiantu K50, from 2017.

Renault Fluence Z.E. / Renault Samsung SM3 Z.E., introduced in Israel in 2011. Discontinued under the Renault brand in 2014.

Renault City K-ZE, launched in 2019

Renault Zoe, from December 2012. Total production reached 200,000 in November 2019.[18] Second generation launched in 2019.

Roewe Ei5

Roewe ER6

Roewe ERX5

Roewe Marvel R

Roewe Marvel X

SEAT e-Mii, from 2019[citation needed]

Škoda Citigo, from 2019[citation needed]

Smart electric drive ForTwo since 2006 (ED1), for sale since 2012 (ED3), 4th electric generation also available as ForFour, since 2018 rebranded as EQ, owned and manufactured by Mercedes-Benz

Sol E10X

Sol E20X

Sol E40X

Sol E50A

Tesla Roadster

Tesla Model S – deliveries in the U.S. began in June 2012.[19] Cumulative sales of Tesla Model S and Model X combined were 442,600 through December 2019.[20]

Tesla Model X – deliveries in the U.S. began in September 2015.[21][22] Cumulative sales of Tesla Model S and Model X combined were 442,600 through December 2019.[20]

Tesla Model 3 – deliveries in the U.S. began in July 2017.[23] Cumulative sales totaled 448,634 through December 2019.[24]

Tesla Model Y – deliveries in the U.S. began March 13, 2020.[25]

Trumpchi GE3, from 2017.

Venturi Fétish marketed as the world's first electric sports two-seater.

Volkswagen e-Up! – Retail sales began in Europe in October 2013.[26]

Volkswagen e-Golf – Sold in Europe and North America, cumulative sales reached 100,000 in November 2019[27]

Volkswagen ID.3 from 2020.

Volkswagen ID.4 from 2020.

Volkswagen e-Lavida, from 2019.

Volvo XC40 Recharge, from 2020.

Weltmeister EX5, from 2018.

Weltmeister EX6, from 2020.

Wuling Hongguang Mini EV, from 2020.

Xpeng G3, from 2018.

Xpeng P7, from 2020.

Zhidou D2, Zotye E20, from 2014.

Zotye E30, Dorcen E20 (revised version), from 2016.

Zotye E200, from 2016.

Microcars[edit]

Aixam e City & e Coupé,[28] a European quadricycle.

Arcimoto FUV

Buddy, successor to the Kewet

Citroën Ami, from 2020

Electra Meccanica SOLO – Three-wheel, single-seat, lithium-ion battery electric commuter car marketed to the U.S. and Canada.

Renault Twizy Z.E.; a two-seat electric quadricycle with a 4 or 13 kilowatts (5.4 or 17.4 hp) electric motor. Top speed is 80 km/h (50 mph) and range is up to 100 km (62 mi). Launched in Europe in March 2012, became the top selling plug-in electric vehicle in Europe during the first half of 2012 with over 6,000 units sold in three months.[29]

Tango, 150 mph (240 km/h) ultra-narrow electric sports cars by Commuter Cars[30]

Tazzari Zero, a European quadricycle.

Low-speed vehicles[edit]

These vehicles have a top speed less than many highway maximum speed limits, and some may not be street-legal without restrictions. They are known as quadricycles in Europe and as Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs) in the US.

Club Car Villager, a NEV based on a golf car design. The name may be a reference to The Villages, Florida, a retirement community planned to facilitate golf cart usage.

CityEl three-wheeled EV, produced in Germany.[citation needed]

citEcar, produced by Road Rat Motors in Gainesville, Florida[31] and marketed at Bintelli Electric Vehicles.[32] These Golf Cart-based NEVs carry between 2 and 28 passengers.[33]

Dynasty IT, a NEV produced in Canada from 2001 to 2007 and later sold to Karakoram Motors in Pakistan.

EuAuto Mycar manufactured in Southern China, sold in Hong Kong, limited to roads with speed limit at or below 50 km/h (31 mph)

E-Z-Go 2Five, a NEV based on a golf car design.

Garia Monaco, a golf car based luxury NEV made in Denmark and sold in the US.[34]

Kyburz DXP – produced in Switzerland and sold to postal fleets and private customers. The Swiss Post's entire light delivery fleet consists of DXP vehicles.[35]

Mahindra e2o, also known as the REVA NXR and based on the REVAi, launched in the Indian market in March 2013.[36] Range of 80 to 120 km (50 to 75 mi) and a top speed of 82 km/h (51 mph).

Melex Low Speed Electric Vehicle made in Poland, in production since 1971.

Open Since the beginning of this[when?] year also sold in Japan as Girasole, with higher speed and wider range as the Open.[citation needed]

Organic Transit ELF, a hybrid velomobile designed primarily for solar and pedal powered, but an external charger is optional. Electric only range of 45 mi (72 km). A "tadpole" trike with two tires in the front. Built in Durham, North Carolina.[37] As of April, 2020, the company is bankrupt and is selling off its assets.[38]

Paxster, Paxster Produced by Paxster A/S A purpose build electric vehicle for delivery and last mile post distribution. Largest fleets used by the postal service in Norway and New Zealand but sold worldwide. In production since 2013.[39]

Polaris GEM, popular NEV sold since the 1990s. Manufactured in Anaheim, California.

Star EV, a series of NEVs based on golf carts that carry 2 to 14 passengers. Made by Suzhou Eagle Electric Vehicle Manufacturing Co.,Ltd. in China (www.eagleelectricvehicle.com)

Tomberlin E-Merge, (formerly ParCar), a golf car based NEV built in Leesburg, Florida.[40]

Twike, an electric velomobile produced in Germany.

Zbee Cleanmotion

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_production_battery_electric_vehicles

[Keleth 9,279]

53 minutes ago, Janx Spirit said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_production_battery_electric_vehicles

Not going to quote the rest of that wall of text.

My whole point is that MM and his cohorts want Tesla to be the only EV.

Everytime a new EV or tech for EVs is introduced by any company other than Tesla it is criticised because they don´t want anyone else to be as good as their beloved Tesla.

To me the more and varied choice and prices of EVs the better.

[Janx Spirit 11,065]

8 minutes ago, Keleth said:

...

My whole point is that MM and his cohorts want Tesla to be the only EV.

Everytime a new EV or tech for EVs is introduced by any company other than Tesla it is criticised because they don´t want anyone else to be as good as their beloved Tesla...

 

Putting words in others' mouths...

 

I certainly don't want Tesla to be the only EV (which it isn't) and I'm pretty sure "The Tesla Cohorts" also welcome market diversity. 

 

The whole EV adoption thing is to get as many manufacturers on board as possible. Tesla can't go it alone (yet  ) 

[Keleth 9,279]

10 minutes ago, Janx Spirit said:

Putting words in others' mouths...

Well stop doing it then.

Read MM and catjones´posts in this very thread and you will see what I´m on about.

Nothing VW etc can do is good,everything Tesla does is never wrong.

[Krieg 14,917]

2 hours ago, Keleth said:

Nothing VW etc can do is good,everything Tesla does is never wrong.

 

Well, to be honest, your first part of the sentence is at least partially true, the traditional car manufacturers are way behind in terms of the new technology.   The latter part of your sentence is what I agree 100%, our token Tesla fanboi would defend anything Tesla does.

 

I still think the traditional car industry will catch up and then they will eat Tesla, because they know better how to build car, they do have a service network and they have been more open to third party repairs.    Tesla will move to be a smaller niche player or maybe a provider.

[fraufruit 41,924]

About EV insurance

 

Quote

 

If you feel like you're suddenly seeing that shiny metal "T" everywhere on the road, you're not mistaken. Electric vehicles sales are soaring, and Tesla is leading the charge.

EV sales in the U.S. nearly doubled in the first quarter of 2021 compared to the same time last year, says a new report by Experian, with Elon Musk's car company commanding a 71% share.

Tesla also recently announced that it doubled its worldwide production, shipping more than 200,000 cars in the second quarter, up from 90,000 a year ago.

 

But even though many Americans have decided a Tesla is worth the high sticker price, they could be in for a shock when they try to find affordable insurance for these technological and ecological marvels....

 

 

[yesterday 1,978]

While its kinda good that more people are buying e-cars, its still nothing in comparison to what is needed.

 

In the last non covid affected year ( 2019 ) about 65 million cars were sold, 800,000 e car is like nothing. It makes zero differences to the earth we live on.

 

It would take tens of years for Tesla, to get the production right, to supply all the cars we drive. So let face it, others inc GM and VW are going to have to produce aswell, or its to take a very long time to get to 70 % e production.

 

Personally I wish MM and catwoman well in their investments, I do not think it will happen, that Tesla will be come the dominent force, so I am not investing in them anymore, I made my money and now I am out. But I wish them luck

 

Personally, as I drive down the autobahn, I see a Tesla on a daily or 2/3 times a week basis at the moment, but I am starting to see more and more ID3's and 4ors on the autobahn and around.

 

E cars are not for me at the moment, but that may change, also cannot see my purchase of an e car affecting the earth either.

 

 

[fraufruit 41,924]

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

While its kinda good that more people are buying e-cars, its still nothing in comparison to what is needed.

 

I agree 100%. Climate change is no longer coming, it is here to stay.

 

Still, can't have an EV with nowhere to charge it.

[Keleth 9,279]

49 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Still, can't have an EV with nowhere to charge it.

More solar panels on your house 

[fraufruit 41,924]

You mean between my flat and the 8th floor one?

[Keleth 9,279]

6 hours ago, fraufruit said:

You mean between my flat and the 8th floor one?

Yer that´s always the "expert" answer on this forum.

More solar panels

 

[yesterday 1,978]

Well scientist think solar panels could cause more climate change 

Sahara Desert Solar Panels Contributing to Global Warming, Scientists Find Out | Tech Times

Affecting the World's Climate

Since the panels are much darker than the soil of their surroundings, a vast expanse of solar cells will absorb more energy and would emit it as heat, which would then affect our climate, so creating a massive solar farm in the Sahara desert.

To cover up the demand for fossil energy, solar plants would have to cover thousands of square kilometers.

Although it is possible to cover up the Sahara desert or other deserts in the world, the heat re-emitted from such an area would be redistributed by the airflow in the atmosphere and could have regional or even global effects when it comes to our climate.

One effect of such a massive solar farm is the possibility of making the Sahara a habitable oasis.

In a study in 2018 that was published in the scientific journal "Science" by Yan Li and fellow researchers, a climate model shows that if a solar farm covers 20% of the entirety of the Sahara desert, it would trigger a feedback loop, causing more monsoon rain in the area that could create a more humid environment and spread vegetation across the once barren land.

Negative Effects Based on the Climate Model

It may sound good, but a recent study that was published in the American Geophysical Union (AGU) suggests that such a scenario could have unprecedented effects on remote parts of the land and ocean that could offset any benefits over the desert.

Among the effects is drought in Amazon, which is deemed as the Earth's lungs.

There could also be more tropical cyclones on East Asian and North American coasts, plus the Saharan dust, which is carried by the wind to the Atlantic ocean and the Amazon and serves as a vital source of nutrients would be gone.

A massive solar farm could help keep up with the energy demand, but it may also cause a significant shift in the world's climate.

 

 

 

and solar panels still will not help people who live in flats and cannot plug them into their cars, without massive changes to the way citys work at the moment

[MikeMelga 7,240]

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

Hi Lovely TTers

I have a few questions regarding Tesla. I have a Mini Country man from 2012, manual, petrol which I am planning to sell and was looking to buy some SUV live BMWX1 or Audi-Q3.

 

Both me and my wife drive and during the week we mostly drive to Kinder Garten, Office, Groceris or eating out.

 

Approximately we drive 12000-15000 kms in a year.

 

I was checking offers on Carwow and Tesla Model 3 looks quite interesting price-wise. I have never driven an EV before. So probably I will take a Test drive next week. Are there any pros and cons of Tesla?

 

1. For e.g. Laptops and mobiles batteries loose capacity and power after few years. I believe the same will happen to Tesla's battery also? Do we change them after few years and how much will it cost or we just replace the car in some exchange offer and get a new model?

You lose around 2.5% in the first year, around 1.5% in the second year and then slows down below 1% per year until 90%.

Forget replacement, the battery will outlast the car.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

2. Is insurance expensive for EV like Tesla or it is the other way round?

I pay around 1500€ for full insurance at Allianz. I actually think it's cheaper than I expected.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

3. I live in an apartment with underground duplex parking. I am not sure if Charging Infra could be setup in such a shared parking? I will check with Tesla guys.

Easier to ask your compay to setup a normal 10A 230V plug.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

4. Does Tesla have fast charging like 20mins for 90% battery? I don't mind spending 30 mins for charging in a week at a charging station nearby. I can go for a walk.

Yes. Currently you get 120km of range in 5 minutes.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

5. Is the running cost of EV like Tesla lesser than Petrol cars? How much it will cost say to charge Model 3 with 450+ km range at a petrol station or the charging station on streets?

Much less. Tesla doesn't even advise on regular service. Cost per km (electricity vs diesel ) should be around 60% lower.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

6. Is it better to look at other EVs like VW  or Audi or BMW. I believe, the later 2 will be expensive than Tesla mode 3

There are many special features that none of the competition have. The supercharger network is just amazing. Autopilot is amazing. If you prefer better interiors to that, it's your choice.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

7. Is it better to go for Hybrid or do we have enough Infrastructure in Europe for EV. for e.g. Sometimes during summers we drive to Croatia, Slovenia, Prague, Italy etc. etc.

Hybrids are dead.

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

8. Any other points to consider? Is model3 good enough to start with and safe enough with Kids. For e.g. I know BMW cars like X3 and all are very sturdy and safe. Is Tesla equally good in terms of safety?

Tesla has the safest cars on the road. By a wide margin. Period.

 

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

9. How is the service of Tesla? Is it expensive? Traditional cars needs changing of Oil and so many other stuff. Not sure what they do with Tesla Service?

No service is recommended. They just tell you to show up when the car tells you that something needs service. Countless people have showed that they go for years without servicing their Tesla.

On 17.7.2021, 00:11:59, DanglingPointer said:

 

10. Does a new Tesla also have warranty like 3 or 5 years ? Is TUV also like traditional cars every 2 years?

AFAIK it's 4 years in Germany. Battery is 8 year or 192.000km.

 

 

[MikeMelga 7,240]

5 hours ago, yesterday said:

Well scientist think solar panels could cause more climate change 

Sahara Desert Solar Panels Contributing to Global Warming, Scientists Find Out | Tech Times

Affecting the World's Climate

Since the panels are much darker than the soil of their surroundings, a vast expanse of solar cells will absorb more energy and would emit it as heat, which would then affect our climate, so creating a massive solar farm in the Sahara desert.

 

Bullshit! That is based on old efficiency values.

Here is an example: on the super wasteful America, this is the area that would be occupied if 100% of the power came from the sun:

https://www.freeingenergy.com/how-much-solar-would-it-take-to-power-the-u-s/

That's 0.5% of the area of America. Meaningless. And that's the worst case scenario. In the article they quote areas as low as 0.15%.

[MikeMelga 7,240]

On 17.7.2021, 13:33:19, Krieg said:

I still think the traditional car industry will catch up and then they will eat Tesla, because they know better how to build car, they do have a service network and they have been more open to third party repairs.    Tesla will move to be a smaller niche player or maybe a provider.

You are 100% wrong. They don't know how to build electric cars. They are (in most cases) still reusing old platforms. They completely missed the vertical integration. They have crappy software. Their supplier network and their dealership and service network is a liability, not a plus.

They invested in factories which are now obsolete. Those factories would take a decade to pay for itself. Who will pay for them? Their highly skilled mechanical engineers are now useless, they need software developers, not mechanics. They have no battery factories.

They still have hundreds of chips on their cars, all from different suppliers, which increases cost and invalidates OTA updates.

Their self driving is based on Mobileye, which despite being the most advanced ADAS system (same level as Tesla), is not theirs.

They still think of a car as a product, not as a mean for services.

 

Tesla will be a dominant automaker. I don't think they will be #1 in revenue in 2030, like some forecast, but Tesla will be top 3.

[MikeMelga 7,240]

On 17.7.2021, 17:11:34, fraufruit said:

Still, can't have an EV with nowhere to charge it.

As I've said before, in the practical case of Munich, Tesla has a supercharger in Pasing. If you really can't charge everyday near your house, you could go there every 2 weeks.

And I still think the final solution for charging should be to mandate companies with parking spaces to offer charging for employees.

[MikeMelga 7,240]

On 17.7.2021, 14:22:52, fraufruit said:

About EV insurance

I can show you personally my full coverage for a bit more than 1500€ for a Model 3 LR. I think I'm SF5 or SF6. From Allianz, it's not a crappy low cost company.

[catjones 1,658]

6 hours ago, yesterday said:

Affecting the World's Climate

 

Including your use, the word "could" was used 7 times.

[DanglingPointer 29]

Hi,

Does it make sense to buy a Tesla in Munich, if one doesn't have a charging setup at home? How feasible is it to charge it a public place (Trudering/Berg-am-laim) area once a week or charge it at times doing grocery shopping during the week.

 

TIA

[CincyInDE 3,227]

14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I can show you personally my full coverage for a bit more than 1500€ for a Model 3 LR. I think I'm SF5 or SF6. From Allianz, it's not a crappy low cost company.

 

My SF was at 0.5 when I bought a Model 3 LR in 2019 because I'd never owned a car in Europe and the last car I owned was over 10 years before in the US.  So I went with a Pauschal-type policy specifically for EVs for 1000€ a year.  Anyone over 24 can drive my car.  I've had 1 claim (a ~4,000€ fender+bumper scrape) and no problems getting reimbursed.  The policy is offered by die Bayerische.