Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

2,454 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, El Jeffo said:

Tesla wants $16,000 to repair Model 3, independent shop does it for $700

 

This is why we need the right to repair guaranteed by law.

This is why buying an expensive car without full coverage insurance is a bad idea. Got a quote from Mercedes for a hood dent. They said they would only do a full replacement: 5000€.

This is about to get worst, with mega casting. My advice: have full insurance.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

WTF? they put a PLASTIC part under the car and made it not replaceable?  That's embarrassing. 

Do you mean the cover or the part that broke?

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10 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

This is why buying an expensive car without full coverage insurance is a bad idea. Got a quote from Mercedes for a hood dent. They said they would only do a full replacement: 5000€.

This is about to get worst, with mega casting. My advice: have full insurance.

 

Of course Mercedes would rather sell you a new €5,000 hood than take care of the dent for €500. So your insurance premiums go up because you didn't bother to get a quote from an independent garage. Brilliant.

 

I'll let the article's author continue:

Quote

And, honestly, even if he did have it covered, that’s not even the point; it’s still an incredibly wasteful and expensive procedure for a very minor bit of damage, and demonstrates a real engineering Achilles’ heel in battery pack design.

 

9 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

What are you talking about? The problem was a cooling issue with the package, not with some plastic.

 

The pan under the car could have been designed more robustly, which would have prevented the damage in the first place:

Quote

In the video we can see where whatever debris Donald ran over punctured the plastic pan under the car, a pan that’s more there for aero purposes than protection. It’s not a skid plate.

The owner’s Model 3 was a one-motor version, so it has its drivetrain at the rear, and there’s just an empty volume in front where the front drivetrain could be mounted. This is only relevant because it means there’s very little in that space for something to hit, which is good and bad. There’s less components that could be damaged, but what is there is very exposed.

In this case, what is under there is the front end of the battery pack, with its various coolant connections, including the coolant port/nipple thing that took the impact of that cruel debris.

Here’s the thing about this problem: it should be a trivial fix, by design, even. It’s in an exposed location directly over the road, it’s made of plastic, and has minimal protection. This is exactly the sort of part that should be replaceable, easily.

 

Crappy design makes everything more expensive. Still, I guess it's still not as bad as using duct tape to fasten components when bolts weren't available.

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30 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

This is why buying an expensive car without full coverage insurance is a bad idea. Got a quote from Mercedes for a hood dent. They said they would only do a full replacement: 5000€.

This is about to get worst, with mega casting. My advice: have full insurance.

 

29 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Do you mean the cover or the part that broke?

 

As an engineer I am ashamed that another engineer is white-knightning such bad design.

 

You definitely drunk their Kool-Aid and would defend anything Tesla does, wouldn't matter how crappy it is.

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3 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

 

Of course Mercedes would rather sell you a new €5,000 hood than take care of the dent for €500. So your insurance premiums go up because you didn't bother to get a quote from an independent garage. Brilliant.

It's an aluminium hood, you can't bend it back at normal temperatures. I did bother to get it done at an indpendent garage and it was still 1800€, not 500€. But also not 5000€.

All new cars suffer from lack of repairability, it's not only Tesla.

 

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2 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

 

As an engineer I am ashamed that another engineer is white-knightning such bad design.

 

You definitely drunk their Kool-Aid and would defend anything Tesla does, wouldn't matter how crappy it is.

Wake up and smell the shit. All premium cars built in the past 10 years are becoming incredibly expensive to repair. As an engineer you should be looking on that. Shame? I smell elbow pain.

I actually have experience of having Mercedes, BMW and Audi repairs. Fortunately no Tesla repairs so far. Any shitty part that breaks is very expensive, even on 3rd party shops.

If there were no Tesla, I would buy a >55k€ Mercedes. In any of the cases I would have full coverage.

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1 minute ago, El Jeffo said:

Man, lots of whatabout on the forum today.

 

Tractors, trucks, cellphones, computers and other electronics cannot be DIY repaired without losing warranty.  It's not industry-specific, it's product-specific.

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23 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Wake up and smell the shit. All premium cars built in the past 10 years are becoming incredibly expensive to repair. As an engineer you should be looking on that. Shame? I smell elbow pain.

I actually have experience of having Mercedes, BMW and Audi repairs. Fortunately no Tesla repairs so far. Any shitty part that breaks is very expensive, even on 3rd party shops.

If there were no Tesla, I would buy a >55k€ Mercedes. In any of the cases I would have full coverage.

 

Still no company has asked me to pay 16k because a tiny plastic piece broke, and such tiny piece being under the car with almost no protection is an embarrassment.

 

I like how your argument is Whataboutism.

 

The design and engineering decisions about that piece are a disgrace.     You would defend a turd if it came with a Tesla sticker.

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Everyone knows that nowadays cars are made to be difficult to repair so that people have to go to workshops to get the work done as that´s where most manufacturers make their money.

This case is in the extreme though as one tiny part requires the whole thing to be replaced for a cost of 16k.

5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

My advice: have full insurance.

This is all well and good until this becomes a thing and then the insurance companies start jacking up the price because of repair costs.

 

You´re an engineer,you´re a Tesla fanboy (even going so far as to defend this) so why was that piece made like that ?

 

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5 hours ago, Keleth said:

Everyone knows that nowadays cars are made to be difficult to repair

 

I don't know about that claim, but they also require fewer repairs than cars from the past, not to mention warranties...kaizen.

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Sometimes, the measure of a company is how they react to a situation.

TSB for the Model 3 undercarriage panels:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153430-9999.pdf

Not all service bulletin fixes are free
You can expect to pay nothing if your car is under warranty and the service technician can verify that your vehicle has the problem described in the TSB. But if you don't ask for the fix until after the warranty expires, you may be charged.

The $16K repair bill link included damage caused by " drove over some road debris, which punctured the plastic front belly pan of the car and impacted a coolant line port to the battery, breaking it.

Hardly, normal wear and tear, so the claim against tesla is misleading as it would be against any auto manufacturer.  The article also does not mention if the car is still under warranty.

 

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7 hours ago, catjones said:

 

I don't know about that claim, but they also require fewer repairs than cars from the past, not to mention warranties...kaizen.

Yer sorry meant minor repairs or even standard maintenance.

Have you tried changing a bulb in any of the lights in a new car ?

6 hours ago, catjones said:

The $16K repair bill link included damage caused by " drove over some road debris, which punctured the plastic front belly pan of the car and impacted a coolant line port to the battery, breaking it.

Why is it plastic though when it is something under the car that can be damaged by driving over debris ?

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8 hours ago, catjones said:

Sometimes, the measure of a company is how they react to a situation.

 

TSB for the Model 3 undercarriage panels:

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153430-9999.pdf

 

Not all service bulletin fixes are free
You can expect to pay nothing if your car is under warranty and the service technician can verify that your vehicle has the problem described in the TSB. But if you don't ask for the fix until after the warranty expires, you may be charged.

 

 

The $16K repair bill link included damage caused by " drove over some road debris, which punctured the plastic front belly pan of the car and impacted a coolant line port to the battery, breaking it.

 

Hardly, normal wear and tear, so the claim against tesla is misleading as it would be against any auto manufacturer.  The article also does not mention if the car is still under warranty.

 

 

 

 

You are completely missing the point.   Nobody wants Tesla to fix it for free, it is totally understandable that this is wear and tear.   The problem is such bad design that a tiny piece made of plastic is not replaceable meaning you have to replace half car and pay 16k for it.

 

If I read correctly yesterday, I think they mentioned the Chevy EV has a similar part and replacing it at the dealer would cost $160.  

 

Problems like this is the main reason why I think once the traditional car manufactures catch up they will be a much better choice, they indeed know how to make cars and they have more reasonable engineering designs and service network.    Tesla makes fantastic cars with impressive tech at an incredible price, but that's still not the whole package.

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6 hours ago, Krieg said:

The problem is such bad design that a tiny piece made of plastic is not replaceable meaning you have to replace half car and pay 16k for it.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.  A simple search would show what a ridiculous remark yours is.

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8 hours ago, Keleth said:

Have you tried changing a bulb in any of the lights in a new car ?

 

Nope, but if needed it's covered under warranty.

If you think automobile quality has gone down over the past 20 years there is nothing I could say to change your mind.

Almost every electronic product these days is so interconnected with computer chips that the DIY guy from the past has nowhere near the skills and equipment to do repairs without screwing up the entire system.  If this upsets you, you'll be upset for a long time.

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26 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

If you think automobile quality has gone down over the past 20 years there is nothing I could say to change your mind.

 

Where did I say that ?

26 minutes ago, catjones said:

Nope, but if needed it's covered under warranty.

Depends on what car you have.

 

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On 14.7.2021, 23:14:04, catjones said:

 

I don't know about that claim, but they also require fewer repairs than cars from the past, not to mention warranties...kaizen.

Look at cars from the past 20 years... more and more aluminium is used. Aluminium can't be fixed like steel. To bend back aluminium you need high temperatures, that damage the paint and require repainting the part. I had a 3cm dent on my Mercedes hood and Mercedes said it would not fix it, it would sell me a new one. An independent garage fixed it for 1800€.

Diesel engines are another issue... the past 20 years saw a big reduction in consumption and in emissions. But that came at the cost of expensive parts and expensive repairs.

Worst, some of those repairs are really hard for independent shops to perform, because of tooling and electronics requirements.

 

Now Tesla is taking it to the next level (for worst) and coming up with the mega casting. Fanboy? I'm literally saying that Mega casting is great to reduce car cost, but will increase repair cost hugely. I'm giving you the solution (full insurance) and you are calling me fanboy.

 

On 14.7.2021, 17:37:53, Keleth said:

This is all well and good until this becomes a thing and then the insurance companies start jacking up the price because of repair costs.

 

I thought the same until I saw Tesla insurance. They are not dumb. They will go around jacking up prices by providing the repairs by themselves, cutting all middle men. They will also adjust premium to your style of driving, as they have all data coming from each car.

Let's look at this case: if that guy had full coverage, the insurance company would pay $16.000. If Tesla were the insurance company, they would either repair the issue or give him a new battery and reuse the old one.

What does this mean? Car manufacturers will enter insurance business. Vertical integration is key for survival. AFAIK VW already does it.

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19 hours ago, catjones said:

 

You don't know what you're talking about.  A simple search would show what a ridiculous remark yours is.

Yeah, he thinks it's a tiny piece of plastic that somehow also costed $700 to repair...

 

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23 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Yeah, he thinks it's a tiny piece of plastic that somehow also costed $700 to repair...

 

 

Sure, I think that.  And sure that's the point.  Continue defending the bad design that can be solved by having full comprehensive insurance for the whole life of the car.

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